2017 NXN At-Large Bids Controversy?

Shane Bissell. it's spelled Bissell not Bissel!!! :-)

Desert Vista struggling because of wet conditions is a stupid argument. Look at how well the girls teams did from DV. Top ten both years they went in bad weather conditions.

My daughter's team and my daughter individually worked harder than anyone's daughter in the whole country, if not the world!!!! I was in the Tour De France, 7 times and well...I kinda did pretty good.

My next door neighbor's daughter has a friend who works at McDonald's and her next door neighbor's 2nd cousin ran a 7 minute mile last year dammit!

My daughter DNF'd in the Cool Breeze Invite 3 times in a row, but I still think she should have gone! What's with all this BIAS man! I mean Nike, send my kid the $800 retail value of Nike gear and I'll stop complaining. This is ridiculous!

ApolloRunner16 wrote:

Desert Vista struggling because of wet conditions is a stupid argument. Look at how well the girls teams did from DV. Top ten both years they went in bad weather conditions.

Those conditions were TUFF!

lmao wrote:

big man wrote:

You know what. Finish in the top two or face the music. It's really that simple.

Amen. If you want an NXN spot bad enough, you'll earn it on regionals day. Finish in the top two or face the music, and accept (like Lyons has had to, and I know it's tough losing by one) that by not being one of the two best you're putting your fate in the hands of the NXN organizers.

No disrespect to Lyons, great team, but they also got 5TH at the Illinois state meet. That is most likely what cost them a bid.

The Starved Elephant wrote:

lmao wrote:

Amen. If you want an NXN spot bad enough, you'll earn it on regionals day. Finish in the top two or face the music, and accept (like Lyons has had to, and I know it's tough losing by one) that by not being one of the two best you're putting your fate in the hands of the NXN organizers.

No disrespect to Lyons, great team, but they also got 5TH at the Illinois state meet. That is most likely what cost them a bid.

WE worked hard at Lyons and admit it, we earned it. WE have a tough state, 5th should have been enough with our background and past.

StormBlessed wrote:

I've been looking around on twitter and instagram and it seems a lot of people are upset over the at-large picks this year, mostly over Desert Vista (AZ) on the boys side and Saratoga Springs (NY) on the girls side.

I'm having trouble seeing how the selection committee took 4 boys teams from the Southwest when other regions are so strong. I mean, I guess Desert Vista did run pretty well in September against Great Oak, and ran fast 5k times at Desert Twilight, but Lyons Township was only 3 points behind 2nd place at NXR Midwest! I don't know, its a hard choice, but it seems crazy to have not taken some other 3rd place NXR team

if you're not in high school and not a high school/college cross country coach, you should not be allowed to talk about high school cross country.

move on. let it go. get a life

Says the guy with no life and can't move on, hence you post here.

I can say there have been some really good Southeast teams in years past that didn’t get an at large bid. This is the first at-large bid that the Southeast region has received on the men’s side. It is about time. The region should qualify three teams every year.

The problem with that though is the regions are almost always unbalanced in depth, so only taking 2 teams in each region would heavily favor easier regions, and harder regions would have to unfortunately leave out exceptional 3rd place teams. I think the current system is the best possible- is it perfect? No. But its certainly more fair and better for the sport than strictly top 2 teams

Also, I'd be curious to hear from current high school runners and their thoughts on it. Is anyone on here a high school kid who has an opinion on the at large bids and qualification system?

Furthermore, I predict Desert Vista will get LAST at NXN, and I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

The whole point of using woodbridge as a gauge is because it is the only time Desert Vista faced off with the cali teams. You cant compare what Desert Vista did in Novemeber to what the Cali teams did. Difference course, different conditions, etc. This isnt track....

hahahaha not a chance. You just watch how much better the southwest region is than everyone else.

StormBlessed wrote:

Also, I'd be curious to hear from current high school runners and their thoughts on it. Is anyone on here a high school kid who has an opinion on the at large bids and qualification system?

It's a little unfair but I'm fine with it (Top 5 guy on state champ team that ended up skipping NXN). On one hand, our school wouldn't pay to fly us to Roy Griak and get the quality competition necessary for an at-large. On the other hand, I like the selections as they help teams who had an unreasonably bad day get a second chance. However, I don't understand why NXN can't just take 3 from each region though. 3 spots on a podium, etc., just seems like a better number.

StormBlessed wrote:

Also, I'd be curious to hear from current high school runners and their thoughts on it. Is anyone on here a high school kid who has an opinion on the at large bids and qualification system?

I like taking the top two from each region, but I think the at-large bids really skip over some of the more underrated regions, like Heartland and Midwest. I also don't think so much weight should be put on resume–especially out of Heartland, where you have Minnesota and Section of Death teams so dominant.

With teams like Edina, Wayzata, Minnetonka, Hopkins, Eden Prairie, and Minneapolis Washburn, who are all in the same section and who have all put in top 4 team finishes at NXR in the past five years, it's incredibly difficult to get the same kind of dominating resume that teams in other regions have. For the girls in Heartland this year, for example, third place Minneapolis Washburn (to Wayzata and Edina, their in-section rivals) didn't even make it to state (in fact, placed fourth at their section meet to Edina, Wayzata, and Minnetonka, a stellar girls program who had an off-day at Regionals to place 10th), but had a huge chance to surprise people at NXN with a major lowstick in Roy Griak champ Emily Covert and a #2 runner under 18:00 in the 5K, but were totally overlooked for a bid. Sure, the underperformance of some of these teams at Griak, particularly the Edina girls, who placed 8th, and Washburn, who finished 9th despite Covert's dominating performance, contributed this year to the crushing underestimation of HL girls teams, but it seems harsh to give a bid to NY again…especially considering Saratoga's underwhelming season. In a bit of a different direction, after going on and on about the depth of the Midwest on the girls' side this year, it's also a serious blow to then not follow through on that hype and deliver a bid to the MW girls. And out of the South, Lewisville Hebron had a great case, by NXN's own criteria.

The South's #1 boys team had an off day at NXN South. The Woodlands, despite winning state, finished 4th.

Keller also finished 2nd (despite dominating every race including state), and many teams were somewhat all over the place.

Two quick questions:

1. What do you mean when you say the Midwest is underrated and as a result get skipped over for at large bids? Midwest has had more at-large bids than any region aside from California on the boys side, and is now tied with Southwest for third most on the girls side.

2. Who, with any connection to NXN, was hyping up the Midwest girls this year? I realize that milesplit talked about how absurdly deep that region was, and do agree it was a deep region, but I'm really not sure it was the deepest and the way it turned out, the third place team wasn't all that strong (not a great resume, not a great performance at NXR, and not competitive with the best teams they raced)... but more importantly, milesplit is just a media outlet. Milesplit have nothing to do with the NXN selection committee, so it's hard to see the relevance in their hype with regards to the NXN At-Large selections.

Who, with any connection to NXN, is even involved in media? Do you have any evidence that in previous years someone involved with NXN hypes certain regions?