How to maximize marathon training on 40-50 miles per week?

It has never been my goal to be a low-mileage runner, but it seems to always work out that way.

I probably never ran to my potential, but 42 miles per week (4-month marathon training period) resulted in 2:40:30 at age 23, and 2:56:03 at age 43.

And 38 mpw for 3:07:23 at age 58.

Majority of the mileage at very easy pace. Dedicated LT and VO2max workouts (or races to substitute). Weekly long runs. Occasional secondary long runs as progressions.

Pete Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning 55 mpw plan and subtract 15%-20% from each run.

1) Build a solid aerobic base (hopefully you've already)

2) Take a solid plan, shave off most of the junk miles / easy runs. Keep some easy run just for rest after very tough workouts.

3) Weekly long runs with quality in (quick pace / fast finish / some MP miles)

4) Add some daily core routines because running lots of quality might break you

5) Be consistent, huge mileage weeks here and there are useless and may hurt you.

Coach Jeff ROC wrote:

Pete Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning 55 mpw plan and subtract 15%-20% from each run.

That's a good plan, although OP specified 50-minute max on weekdays, which makes Pfitzinger's medium-long runs difficult to schedule.

Also, and I may be a lone wolf on this, but while reducing the total mileage of a plan, I would keep the long-run distances. Even if I had to run slower than Pfitzinger's suggested paces.

My experience has always been a big pay-back from single, long-duration efforts -- no matter the pace. I know others often make a point of keeping the long run at some arbitrary maximum of weekly mileage, but I don't buy into that notion.

Allen1959 wrote:

That's a good plan, although OP specified 50-minute max on weekdays, which makes Pfitzinger's medium-long runs difficult to schedule.

I concur.

Allen1959 wrote:

Also, and I may be a lone wolf on this, but while reducing the total mileage of a plan, I would keep the long-run distances. Even if I had to run slower than Pfitzinger's suggested paces.

But I meant to concur with this.

Coach Jeff ROC wrote:

Allen1959 wrote:

Also, and I may be a lone wolf on this, but while reducing the total mileage of a plan, I would keep the long-run distances. Even if I had to run slower than Pfitzinger's suggested paces.

But I meant to concur with this.

I'm trying my second marathon next year after bombing my first attempt on a mere 36 miles a week many years ago. I ran two 20 milers and an 18 mile run, and tanked hard at mile 20 during the race by going out way too hard. I ended up walking the next four miles before shuffling the final two.

A common thing I reading is to make sure you are getting at least a 2.5 to 3 hour run in at least twice during your training. Daniel's formula calls for a couple 22 milers, I think.

A good friend of mine cracked the top ten at Boston in the 70s on 40-50 a week. He did a 20on the weekends and a couple 10 mile runs at maybe 10 seconds per mile slower than his race pace during the week. Some weeks he'd do a third 10 miler and other weeks a faster 5 miles. But sometimes just the three runs.

HRE wrote:

A good friend of mine cracked the top ten at Boston in the 70s on 40-50 a week. He did a 20on the weekends and a couple 10 mile runs at maybe 10 seconds per mile slower than his race pace during the week. Some weeks he'd do a third 10 miler and other weeks a faster 5 miles. But sometimes just the three runs.

Top 10 at Boston is not anonymous. What year and who is the friend? Did he have higher mileage in his background?

pics or it didn't happen wrote:

HRE wrote:

A good friend of mine cracked the top ten at Boston in the 70s on 40-50 a week. He did a 20on the weekends and a couple 10 mile runs at maybe 10 seconds per mile slower than his race pace during the week. Some weeks he'd do a third 10 miler and other weeks a faster 5 miles. But sometimes just the three runs.

Top 10 at Boston is not anonymous. What year and who is the friend? Did he have higher mileage in his background?

I don't know if he wants to be identified or not so you can believe me or not. It was in the middle of the decade. He won the Enschede Marathon in the late 60s on 60-70 a week. That was really as high as he ever went until his late 30s, almost a decade later, when he got up to 120 a week and ran 2:15 which was a PB.

In a similar vein, there was a Scotsman called Alastair Wood who did 2:13 at his best and won the London to Brighton ultra in record time on about the same mileage. He never went beyond 15 miles in a single run, usually having one of those each week, and would do sessions like 60x 220. Then he'd maybe run 2 miles on the following day. After setting the record at Brighton he said something about having run more miles that day than he'd done in a training week.

lessismore wrote:

LRCer's unite:

Sometimes we can't just get the 70+ mile weeks in. If one has to do 40-50 mile weeks what are your recommendations.

Full 6-8 months of training.

Likely 5 maybe 6 runs per week but can only get 50 minutes in at a time besides the weekends.

Thoughts? advice?

You simply have to contact me . I`m an expert at improving marathon performance on low mileage.

I always gets so enthusiastic when I read your interesting posts,HRE! :)

I hope I some day in future can present a world record longdistancer who just pull out 60 miles at most per week. But of course it must be a great talent. Such low mileage very good running as you describe is not welcome on these boards. The high mileage "brainwash" is very common here, lol.

COACH J.S å ä ö The high mileage Brainwashing comes from very few people have or coach the ELITE TaLENTS that you get. If I had such talent I could break the WR with less than 30 MPW. Since I don't I would not even attempt a stanka system.

Alrighty wrote:

COACH J.S å ä ö The high mileage Brainwashing comes from very few people have or coach the ELITE TaLENTS that you get. If I had such talent I could break the WR with less than 30 MPW. Since I don't I would not even attempt a stanka system.

Even I who am an expert on low mileage performance don`t do such silly statements breaking WR on just 30 mpw, lol. ;)

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

Alrighty wrote:

COACH J.S å ä ö The high mileage Brainwashing comes from very few people have or coach the ELITE TaLENTS that you get. If I had such talent I could break the WR with less than 30 MPW. Since I don't I would not even attempt a stanka system.

Even I who am an expert on low mileage performance don`t do such silly statements breaking WR on just 30 mpw, lol. ;)

Do not be so modest. I am sure with your system and if I had the talent WR from 800-26.2 would be mere obstacles on the way to success with 30 miles a week.

lessismore wrote:

LRCer's unite:

Sometimes we can't just get the 70+ mile weeks in.

Yes "we" can.

lessismore wrote:

If one has to do 40-50 mile weeks what are your recommendations.

Run more.

lessismore wrote:

Full 6-8 months of training.

Likely 5 maybe 6 runs per week but can only get 50 minutes in at a time besides the weekends.

If you woke up 30 minutes earlier you'd have 80 minutes instead of 50. Stop making excuses.

lessismore wrote:

Thoughts? advice?

Just admit you are lazy.

Meh wrote:

5) Be consistent, huge mileage weeks here and there are useless and may hurt you.

Complete nonsense to say that huge mileage weeks here and there are useless.

Speaker of Hard Truths wrote:

lessismore wrote:

LRCer's unite:

Sometimes we can't just get the 70+ mile weeks in.

Yes "we" can.

lessismore wrote:

If one has to do 40-50 mile weeks what are your recommendations.

Run more.

lessismore wrote:

Full 6-8 months of training.

Likely 5 maybe 6 runs per week but can only get 50 minutes in at a time besides the weekends.

If you woke up 30 minutes earlier you'd have 80 minutes instead of 50. Stop making excuses.

lessismore wrote:

Thoughts? advice?

Just admit you are lazy.

This is such a foreveralone lives with their parents virgin response.

Say what???? wrote:

Meh wrote:

5) Be consistent, huge mileage weeks here and there are useless and may hurt you.

Complete nonsense to say that huge mileage weeks here and there are useless.

Correct.