Hi,
I'm 20 years old italian runner who ran 14'02"3
And 29'25"0 (in 2016)
Is there anyone who may give me some good workout predictors for a sub 65' half? It is going to be my first one (i will run it in 4 weeks) and my coach is not very sure about his training program for such a long distance.
Actually my mileage is around 150/160km per week (95/100 miles) and my longest run are about 26 km (did two times 30k in 1h47)
Thanks
No advice but buen suerte!
I ran 64:48 for my best, and sub-66 a number of times. I also was only a 14:37 guy, so you're coming from a faster starting point at the shorter distances.
When I was getting close to race-ready, I found that these were good predictor workouts:
4 x 2 miles at race pace, with 2 minute rest. Should be moderately-hard effort by the end, but you shouldn't have to kill yourself.
10 x mile, 60s rest, starting at 3-4 seconds/mile slower than race pace, and cutting down to 3-4 seconds/mile faster than race pace by the end. This was always a very difficult workout by the end, but if I could hit it, I knew I was ready to hit my goal pace in the race. I would do this 10 days before the race.
4 mile tempo at race pace should be fairly easy and controlled.
Hope that helps. If you post your email, I'll send you my training log when I ran 64:48.
Piet10000 wrote:
Hi,
I'm 20 years old italian runner who ran 14'02"3
And 29'25"0 (in 2016)
Is there anyone who may give me some good workout predictors for a sub 65' half? It is going to be my first one (i will run it in 4 weeks) and my coach is not very sure about his training program for such a long distance.
Actually my mileage is around 150/160km per week (95/100 miles) and my longest run are about 26 km (did two times 30k in 1h47)
Thanks
Hi Piet10000 !
Looks like it`s time for me to "take over"......if your coach allows me I will gladly help you of course. Besides we are already friends at a social media......I will contact you there. Cheers!
Magic half marathon by
COACH J.S
Thanks for you advice!!
GOML wrote:
I ran 64:48 for my best, and sub-66 a number of times. I also was only a 14:37 guy, so you're coming from a faster starting point at the shorter distances.
When I was getting close to race-ready, I found that these were good predictor workouts:
4 x 2 miles at race pace, with 2 minute rest. Should be moderately-hard effort by the end, but you shouldn't have to kill yourself.
10 x mile, 60s rest, starting at 3-4 seconds/mile slower than race pace, and cutting down to 3-4 seconds/mile faster than race pace by the end. This was always a very difficult workout by the end, but if I could hit it, I knew I was ready to hit my goal pace in the race. I would do this 10 days before the race.
4 mile tempo at race pace should be fairly easy and controlled.
Hope that helps. If you post your email, I'll send you my training log when I ran 64:48.
In my case it was very simple to figure out my shape for the half marathon.
I did 40 minutes at 3:32 km, which turned out to be 11.3 or so kms. 2 weeks later I ran 3:34 pace for the half, in bad conditions. I reckon 3:31/32 would have been possible in case the day was better.
So my case was time based, big deal.
Point is, whatever you can run by yourself for 60% of the distance, without pacers and without any sort of tapering (this was during a normal hard week), is what you can probably hope for at race day.
So I'll make the math for you: 3:05 (which is around the 65 half) for 11.3 km would be about 34:45 minutes.
Do a hard 35 minute tempo: if you can't cover 11.3 km then you have very little hope.
Or similarly run the distance and try to run sub 35.
Don't sweat it if it feels like a race effort. It worked for me in my first half marathon and you look more experienced.
Rockstar Games wrote:
In my case it was very simple to figure out my shape for the half marathon.
I did 40 minutes at 3:32 km, which turned out to be 11.3 or so kms. 2 weeks later I ran 3:34 pace for the half, in bad conditions. I reckon 3:31/32 would have been possible in case the day was better.
So my case was time based, big deal.
Point is, whatever you can run by yourself for 60% of the distance, without pacers and without any sort of tapering (this was during a normal hard week), is what you can probably hope for at race day.
So I'll make the math for you: 3:05 (which is around the 65 half) for 11.3 km would be about 34:45 minutes.
Do a hard 35 minute tempo: if you can't cover 11.3 km then you have very little hope.
Or similarly run the distance and try to run sub 35.
Don't sweat it if it feels like a race effort. It worked for me in my first half marathon and you look more experienced.
This may have held true for you, but for me`(and most of the 65ish guys I've known), it definitely wouldn't.
When I was in my buildup to a HM, doing a 10K at HM pace without any tapering would have been a race effort. I know, because I raced a couple of 10ks right at the pace I wound up running a HM 4-8 weeks later.
Roughly 20 minutes, or 4 miles, is the longest I'd recommend doing a tempo at HM pace when you're talking about race pace of 5:00/mile or thereabouts.
If I'd followed your advice, I would have thought I was nowhere close to 65 minute shape, when i was in fact.
It's hard to extrapolate training advice from such disparate paces. I wouldn't presume to tell a 62 minute HM guys what workouts he can use as a predictor, because the paces and stimuli are different at 5:00/mile than at 4:40. Same is true for going from 3:30/km to 3:05/km.
Yes, I can only hold 3:05 for a 5km so I understand your point. 3:05 is much more intense than 3:30, which could very well be an easy tempo for the former.
Maybe 2 mile repeats would work better as a predictor the faster you get, I'm certainly not remotely close to 65 minutes.
I'd even venture to say that the current 10km shape would provide a very accurate answer to the fast half marathoner, 10 extra seconds per mile or thereabouts generally works well for sub elites.
In my opinion the OP is still overthinking the situation, he should simply go by feel. Best of luck to him either way.
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Piet10000 wrote:Hi,
I'm 20 years old italian runner who ran 14'02"3
And 29'25"0 (in 2016)
Is there anyone who may give me some good workout predictors for a sub 65' half? It is going to be my first one (i will run it in 4 weeks) and my coach is not very sure about his training program for such a long distance.
Actually my mileage is around 150/160km per week (95/100 miles) and my longest run are about 26 km (did two times 30k in 1h47)
Thanks
Hi Piet10000 !
Looks like it`s time for me to "take over"......if your coach allows me I will gladly help you of course. Besides we are already friends at a social media......I will contact you there. Cheers!
Magic half marathon by
COACH J.S
Don't take the L Piet. Trust your own coach. JS will have you doing some weird stuff
This sunday i did a 12k tempo in 37'15 starting at 3'13 ending at 3'03 (some splits at 2'59/3'00 in the middle)...
On saturday i did a 25 k long run in 1h32' (very hilly course)
I will update all of you (on this post) about my trainibg towards the half.
Thanks to all for the interest and advices
1/10
GOML wrote:
This may have held true for you, but for me`(and most of the 65ish guys I've known), it definitely wouldn't.
When I was in my buildup to a HM, doing a 10K at HM pace without any tapering would have been a race effort. I know, because I raced a couple of 10ks right at the pace I wound up running a HM 4-8 weeks later.
Roughly 20 minutes, or 4 miles, is the longest I'd recommend doing a tempo at HM pace when you're talking about race pace of 5:00/mile or thereabouts.
If I'd followed your advice, I would have thought I was nowhere close to 65 minute shape, when i was in fact.
It's hard to extrapolate training advice from such disparate paces. I wouldn't presume to tell a 62 minute HM guys what workouts he can use as a predictor, because the paces and stimuli are different at 5:00/mile than at 4:40. Same is true for going from 3:30/km to 3:05/km.
I think it may be more an issue of training intensity (mileage and so on) rather than pace. I was a high mileage guy when I was in my best fitness and much slower than you, but like you I was similarly "underperforming" in workouts relative to the other poster.
IslandIsPathetic wrote:
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:Hi Piet10000 !
Looks like it`s time for me to "take over"......if your coach allows me I will gladly help you of course. Besides we are already friends at a social media......I will contact you there. Cheers!
Magic half marathon by
COACH J.S
Don't take the L Piet. Trust your own coach. JS will have you doing some weird stuff
Hehe! It`s not Piet that write ....its his coach. And his coach knows that my stuff for the very best half is great stuff ;)
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
IslandIsPathetic wrote:Don't take the L Piet. Trust your own coach. JS will have you doing some weird stuff
Hehe! It`s not Piet that write ....its his coach. And his coach knows that my stuff for the very best half is great stuff ;)
Wat
Just some updates on my training
I did twi big sessions
5x3000 off 2000 (9'15 avg/6'45 avg in recoveries) total of 23 km at 3'09 avg
15 km tempo (doing 2 km fast and 1 medium)
(6'05-6'07-6'04-5'57-6'00) (3'12 avg in recoveries)
8x 1 mile off 1' at half marathon pace or slightly faster (4'52 avg)
Just 8 days to go!!
Piet10000 wrote:
5x3000 off 2000 (9'15 avg/6'45 avg in recoveries) total of 23 km at 3'09 avg
When you ran 5 x 3k at 9:15 with 2k rec. at 6:45 miling you didn't run 23k at 3:09/k. So I guess it was a typo.
That being said... I ran in the exact same ball park you wanna run in and one of those posters before. You understand you just ran 23k as alternation run with an average of 66:30ish HM? :-)
I would more likely see you running 1:03:xx than 65ish, it might even be a 62 if you aren't a workout warrior as calling 3:12/k "medium" seems insane between those 2k reps. I knew I was ready to run 64:xx when I did 22k hilly at 3:55ish and then change shoes and then 6k at 18:20ish. You seem to be way better. Good luck!
just pointing out... wrote:
Piet10000 wrote:5x3000 off 2000 (9'15 avg/6'45 avg in recoveries) total of 23 km at 3'09 avg
When you ran 5 x 3k at 9:15 with 2k rec. at 6:45 miling you didn't run 23k at 3:09/k. So I guess it was a typo.
That being said... I ran in the exact same ball park you wanna run in and one of those posters before. You understand you just ran 23k as alternation run with an average of 66:30ish HM? :-)
I would more likely see you running 1:03:xx than 65ish, it might even be a 62 if you aren't a workout warrior as calling 3:12/k "medium" seems insane between those 2k reps. I knew I was ready to run 64:xx when I did 22k hilly at 3:55ish and then change shoes and then 6k at 18:20ish. You seem to be way better. Good luck!
He is prepared with the right stuff. I`m sure!
The best predictor is your 10km pb not any workout. if you can get in that shape and are doing reasonable mileage you've got a good chance to go sub 65
GOML wrote:
I ran 64:48 for my best, and sub-66 a number of times. I also was only a 14:37 guy, so you're coming from a faster starting point at the shorter distances.
When I was getting close to race-ready, I found that these were good predictor workouts:
4 x 2 miles at race pace, with 2 minute rest. Should be moderately-hard effort by the end, but you shouldn't have to kill yourself.
10 x mile, 60s rest, starting at 3-4 seconds/mile slower than race pace, and cutting down to 3-4 seconds/mile faster than race pace by the end. This was always a very difficult workout by the end, but if I could hit it, I knew I was ready to hit my goal pace in the race. I would do this 10 days before the race.
4 mile tempo at race pace should be fairly easy and controlled.
Hope that helps. If you post your email, I'll send you my training log when I ran 64:48.
This sounds like good training actually I'd go with this guy.
Yes i passed thorugh the half in 66'22
The avg should be 3'11 in that tempo but i ran the recoveries around the track (so it was like 2070m),this is why it became 3'09
Thanks for interest :)