Harvard woes

From my experience with Wales-Dinan, he makes no impression as a coach that wants to create a culture of complacency and participation. He wants to get the most out of his athletes. In exchange, he hopes his athletes get the most out of themselves. He seems eager to coach athletes that want to excel. He also seems to match the excitement and commitment of his athletes (as any driven coach should). If the workload described is too much for the athletes, they probably shouldn't be DI athletes aspiring to gain conference, regional, and national recognition. His job is to create an environment where success can be bred into championships, and athletes want to push their limits. Anyone who finds it unfair just doesn't actually want it bad enough themselves. Maybe he would be better received in the professional running community. Those people love the work.

I'm not liking the comparisons to Shalene Flanagan and Nick Saban. They are PROFESSIONALS making $$$$$$ through their sport. Harvard is non-scholarship -- STUDENT should come first in student-athlete. That's what they tell their recruits, and it leads to many going to Harvard to get an outstanding education AND wanting to continue their running success. It seems many of their women have had the running/racing/being-part-of a-team part of their identity demoralized.

And as for the video, I saw it and winced. It was not a photo that could be misconstrued. I can't really believe the guy had any bad intentions and/or history with the athlete. But it was like a move that I would use on my girlfriend to test if she "was in the mood." And if it really wasn't inappropriate, maybe Harvard should NOT have requested that it be taken down so people could see that.

FormerBruin wrote:

From my experience with Wales-Dinan, he makes no impression as a coach that wants to create a culture of complacency and participation. He wants to get the most out of his athletes. In exchange, he hopes his athletes get the most out of themselves. He seems eager to coach athletes that want to excel. He also seems to match the excitement and commitment of his athletes (as any driven coach should). If the workload described is too much for the athletes, they probably shouldn't be DI athletes aspiring to gain conference, regional, and national recognition. His job is to create an environment where success can be bred into championships, and athletes want to push their limits. Anyone who finds it unfair just doesn't actually want it bad enough themselves. Maybe he would be better received in the professional running community. Those people love the work.

Well he obviously didn't get the most out of his 2:04 800m runner (Erika Veidis). What planet do you live on?

Didn't say he did. I said he "wants" to get the most of his athletes. He tried, and did not succeed in her case.

Secondly, she also seems to take some personal responsibility for her results (as anyone should). in the Huffington she does say,

"Headstrong but dutiful, independent but obedient, I prided myself in my bandwidth and my ability to drive myself into the ground for the sake of accomplishment...

I had consistently torn through days of up to six hours devoted to the track - feet pounding in circles, body buckling under barbells, arms pulling buoy-supported legs, too injured to kick, through the pool. “You’re still here?” a coach remarked one evening, when I had hit the elliptical for my second cross-training session of the day. I loved it. But I loved it in an almost sadistic way, where I was thrilled by my ability to abuse my body, bounce back stronger, and win. I was thrilled by the praise."

Lastly, to argue that he failed because an elite athlete felt overtrained is ridiculous. Without putting words in her mouth, in the article she had goals of making an OLYMPIC TEAM. An Olympic team is NOT EASY to make. People will fail and break in the process. Look at any professional group. They will run themselves into oblivion to make it happen.

conflicted wrote:

Exactly, and harvard doesn't have scholarships so it's the coach's responsibility to strike a balance between getting the most out of the athletes without pushing them away.

No. The lack of scholarship is something for the athlete to consider in making their school decision, not something for the coach to consider when deciding what he expects of his athletes. You are committing to a DI program. If you are not willing to do what that entails without a scholarship, you are free to pursue a different option.

I used to tutor student athletes at a Power Five school when I was in undergrad. If during an appointment with one of the football walk-ons, I'd been like "so since you're not on scholarship, do you get to skip the 5am conditioning workouts?" the guy would still be laughing at me.

Is anyone aware of a d1 program with any record of success that does NOT leave a wake of burned-out athletes? Do d1 football players think that they will not be at risk of post-concussive disorder because they don't have a scholarship? I think every school should have a policy of making it very clear to freshmen that this is a distinct possibility, then they can decide if they would rather quit and join a club. It's not nice to get chewed up and spit out, but it's the nature of the game, it isn't a coaches fault. Do kids these days really think that they will excel without risking burnout? I have a feeling that this attitude is a product of the everyone's-a-winner attitude. News flash: most everyone else wants to be an Olympian, too. Whether or not you make it is a mix of luck, intelligence, and hard work. Sounds like this girl with the twice-daily cross-training routines lacked a certain intelligence in her approach to training, and without knowing her personally, I can say that most of the people I have known who have taken a semi-OCD approach do not make it to the highest level, or if they do, they don't stay there for long. The ones who buy into a coaches philosophy seem to do a lot better, by and large. The coaches should do the worrying, that's what coaches are for.

Didn't one of his Williams runners break her leg at Nationals in the 10k one year? I think she tried to race on a stress fracture and her leg just gave way.

It seems the biggest issue in this article is that he tried to change the culture at Harvard too quickly. Half the team couldn't handle the sudden shift and were disillusioned. Those girls were all recruited under the old regime. They didn't necessarily sign up for his all or nothing approach to coaching.

messinat wrote:

Safety first wrote:

This problem is clearly not about "culture change" or "bringing the program to the next level."

Erika Veidis was as 2:04 800m runner and multi-time Heps champ. Here's what she has to say:

Combined with:

I don't see how anyone could read that as pampered hobby joggers not wanting to work hard. This is a coach endangering his athletes.

I don't know what's going on with Harvard's team, but did Wales-Dinan ask these women to lose what they consider to be an unhealthy amount of weight or did he ask them to lose an unhealthy amount of weight?

The only unhealthy weight the girls have that is worth losing is Mr. Wales-Dinan himself.

I think it is fair to say that they did not sign up to have him as their coach. When they were freshman they decided to go to Harvard obviously for the education, but also because they liked the program. Well, that program is no longer the program. I can see how that can be frustrating. I think that the current coach is obviously doing a better job in terms of producing results, but it's also clear that he is a creep that may take things to far and maybe needs to learn to not say every dumb insultive idea that comes into his head. The dude needs a filter at the very least!

Agree wrote:

he is a creep that may take things to far and maybe needs to learn to not say every dumb insultive idea that comes into his head. The dude needs a filter at the very least!

He is an average guy who sexualizes women and views them primarily through that one-dimensional lens. Average men should not be coaches of women's teams.

Sounds like the culture change was one towards sexual harassment and those Harvard women were too smart to fall for that crap. I saw the wow video. I'm curious, how many men on this board have ever been touched like that by their coach?

Boston tea party wrote:

how many men on this board have ever been touched like that by their coach?

Exactly.

Also they all look to be in good shape.

http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/sports/wxc/2016-17/releases/Harvard_Wins_First_-IvyHeps_Women-s_Cross_Country_Championship_Since_1985

For the love of god how thin are these girls suppose to be?

*stands up*

*walks to front of room*

*clears throat*

https://www.google.com/search?q=victim+blaming

end o story wrote:

Agree wrote:

he is a creep that may take things to far and maybe needs to learn to not say every dumb insultive idea that comes into his head. The dude needs a filter at the very least!

He is an average guy who sexualizes women and views them primarily through that one-dimensional lens. Average men should not be coaches of women's teams.

You can't view anything through a one-dimensional lens.

This.

Agree wrote:

I think it is fair to say that they did not sign up to have him as their coach. When they were freshman they decided to go to Harvard obviously for the education, but also because they liked the program. Well, that program is no longer the program. I can see how that can be frustrating. I think that the current coach is obviously doing a better job in terms of producing results, but it's also clear that he is a creep that may take things to far and maybe needs to learn to not say every dumb insultive idea that comes into his head. The dude needs a filter at the very least!

Harvard is Patrick's 4th college gig in just 7 years. Why?

does someone have the creepy harvard video?

Boston tea party wrote:

Sounds like the culture change was one towards sexual harassment and those Harvard women were too smart to fall for that crap. I saw the wow video. I'm curious, how many men on this board have ever been touched like that by their coach?

is there even a single quote by an athlete/former athlete/anonymous that alleges sexual harassment in the article?