In the grand scheme of things, who cares? I say it's like a plagiarizing part of your PhD thesis. No one cares about it unless you become famous for something more important anyway.
In the grand scheme of things, who cares? I say it's like a plagiarizing part of your PhD thesis. No one cares about it unless you become famous for something more important anyway.
Big Questioner wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, who cares? I say it's like a plagiarizing part of your PhD thesis. No one cares about it unless you become famous for something more important anyway.
cheater cheater peter eater
If by "grand scheme" you mean life, then yes.....it doesn't matter. On a lesser level, such as the race world, it does matter. Maybe not in terms of fame or money, just in principal. If you have to cheat, don't participate. Run by yourself and leave the racing to the honest folks. I'd rather come in dead last or get a DNF than to cheat someone out of a placing.
I care. I care even more when I am the one who sins. Character is defined by what you do when no one is watching. If you mess up while people are watching, it's unlikely you will behave better when no one is watching. In the grand scheme of things, EVERYTHING matters. On a positive note, nobody is beyond redemption.
Big Questioner wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, who cares? I say it's like a plagiarizing part of your PhD thesis. No one cares about it unless you become famous for something more important anyway.
For the most part, I agree with you, unless it has a significant direct impact on another competitor, such as keep them off the Olympic team, or something to that effect, which is highly unlikely to be possible to pull off without being exposed. I guess it gets interesting with the situation where someone doesn't get to run Boston because of this sort of a cheat. That's one scenario where I believe it's a pretty crappy thing.
Aren't races measured by the shortest distance anyways? So cutting the most direct route on the course is running the exact distance measured. So if one is going to the outer corner they're slightly adding the overall distance of the race making for a longer race. Running off the marked course is short cutring and the only thing you're doing is lying and cheating yourself. So i dont see an issue cutting the course so long as you're on the marked course. Stepping out or cutting through a corner is cheating.
When i do my road races i stay on the shortest direct path on the race. To keep people from going around me and to not run an additional 200m in a 5k.
Alan Bennet wrote:
I care. I care even more when I am the one who sins. Character is defined by what you do when no one is watching. If you mess up while people are watching, it's unlikely you will behave better when no one is watching. In the grand scheme of things, EVERYTHING matters. On a positive note, nobody is beyond redemption.
Let me clarify, that it really doesn't effect almost anyone else if some buffoon intentionally cuts the course. But I see it as a sign of some serious insecurities.
I don't understand the "it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things" argument. You can do some really terrible shit that doesn't register as a blip in the grand scheme of things.
I could go murder someone in the street, and that act wouldn't alter the course of history or cause empires to rise or fall. Despite the fact that it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, I think most people would support this act.
I could win the Olympic 1500 by cutting the course. I'd just run 300 with the pack and then camp out under the bell and pop out just before the leader got there.
Big Questioner wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, who cares? I say it's like a plagiarizing part of your PhD thesis. No one cares about it unless you become famous for something more important anyway.
We care because it demeans the value of the legitimate accomplishment. I earned my PhD through blood sweat and tears, so when some people achieve the same degree by cheating, of course that's going to offend me. At the same time, I understand that plagiarizing part of a dissertation might not seem like a big deal to people who never tried for a PhD, because it's not their achievement that is being devalued.
Since this is a distance running message board, that means most of us here have put in blood sweat and tears in an attempt to reach our goals in running, which often include dipping under a particular time for some distance. So of course many people here (not all) are going to be pissed when someone cheats their way to a fast time, because doing so spits in the face of our efforts.
I am astonished that this thread has gotten serious responses
Nobody cares about 'cutting the course' per se but cheating to win, place etc... is rightfully anathema.
If this woman wasn't deranged she could have cut the course and just not crossed the finish, or DQ'd herself by saying hey... or admittinh the truth when confronted by the timer.
She had how many opportunities to behave ethically?
Zero point zero chance this was a one time, spur of the moment action either.
Agreed that the OP is just trolling us and pleased with what he's accomplished. But trolling or not, I do think that mindset is out there.
French Dawg wrote:
I am astonished that this thread has gotten serious responses
Big Questioner wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, who cares? I say it's like a plagiarizing part of your PhD thesis. No one cares about it unless you become famous for something more important anyway.
Why is it usually pointless to answer idiotic questions?
Big Questioner wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, who cares? I say it's like a plagiarizing part of your PhD thesis. No one cares about it unless you become famous for something more important anyway.
You dummy......
If it comes out that you cheated to obtain ANY degree and your employer finds out, you could lose your job due to falsification of records. And good luck finding another one if that happens.
Integrity.
I'll give you 1/10 because you got this on the front page. Congrats troll.
If you're cheating/cutting corners here, where else? Dumb fcuk.
Just wow... wrote:
Alan Bennet wrote:I care. I care even more when I am the one who sins. Character is defined by what you do when no one is watching. If you mess up while people are watching, it's unlikely you will behave better when no one is watching. In the grand scheme of things, EVERYTHING matters. On a positive note, nobody is beyond redemption.
Let me clarify, that it really doesn't effect almost anyone else if some buffoon intentionally cuts the course. But I see it as a sign of some serious insecurities.
I'm having a hard time taking this question seriously but I'll bite. If we follow your argument to its logical conclusion then it didn't matter that Rosie Ruiz cut the Boston course in 1980 and was declared the winner. It didn't matter that she took something from Jacqueline Gareau that Gareau had earned and Ruiz did not. I've won four very minor races in my life and I can tell you that those last few steps, when you know you've won, are among the greatest moments you can have as a runner.
So maybe you don't mean it's OK to cut the course and "win" a race. How far down would it not have mattered that Ruiz cut the course? Second? Tenth? One hundredth, thereby taking a medal away from the last legitimate medal winner?
Initially, it would not seem to matter if a course cutter pushes someone from 5,167th place to 5,168th place so maybe you don't think it matters if someone cuts the course as long as they don't take away a win, a prize, an age group award, etc. But it still does because you're eroding the legitimacy of the sport.
Stand at the finish line of a marathon when the finishers are coming in and you'll hear the announcer talking about what those people have accomplished by running 26.2 miles at any speed. You'll hear spectators applauding those finishers for covering that distance. You'll have impressed your friends and co-workers when you're waving around your finishers' medal because running a marathon is generally taken as an accomplishment. The same holds true in varying degrees for races at other distances as well.
If you start allowing people to cut race courses, even if they do it without taking away any awards from legitimate performers (and we know that they will in some cases take those awards away) you detract from the respect the sport is held in. Eventually people will know that the sport isn't totally legitimate and when someone they know says that they ran a marathon last weekend the reaction might be to shrug the accomplishment off because there is legitimate reason to question whether or not that truly happened.
If everyone involved is participating in it as a non-competitive event, then I see the OPs perspective. It is obviously insulting to those who are in it as competitors, and highly insensitive for those who cut the course not to realize this. But on the other hand, it is their dysfunctional psychological issues, not ours. We do what we can to get them dq'd if they affected other competitors, but regardless of the outcome, we can still take heart in the fact that we gave it our honest best.
HRE wrote:
Just wow... wrote:Let me clarify, that it really doesn't effect almost anyone else if some buffoon intentionally cuts the course. But I see it as a sign of some serious insecurities.
I'm having a hard time taking this question seriously but I'll bite. If we follow your argument to its logical conclusion then it didn't matter that Rosie Ruiz cut the Boston course in 1980 and was declared the winner. It didn't matter that she took something from Jacqueline Gareau that Gareau had earned and Ruiz did not. I've won four very minor races in my life and I can tell you that those last few steps, when you know you've won, are among the greatest moments you can have as a runner.
So maybe you don't mean it's OK to cut the course and "win" a race. How far down would it not have mattered that Ruiz cut the course? Second? Tenth? One hundredth, thereby taking a medal away from the last legitimate medal winner?
Initially, it would not seem to matter if a course cutter pushes someone from 5,167th place to 5,168th place so maybe you don't think it matters if someone cuts the course as long as they don't take away a win, a prize, an age group award, etc. But it still does because you're eroding the legitimacy of the sport.
Stand at the finish line of a marathon when the finishers are coming in and you'll hear the announcer talking about what those people have accomplished by running 26.2 miles at any speed. You'll hear spectators applauding those finishers for covering that distance. You'll have impressed your friends and co-workers when you're waving around your finishers' medal because running a marathon is generally taken as an accomplishment. The same holds true in varying degrees for races at other distances as well.
If you start allowing people to cut race courses, even if they do it without taking away any awards from legitimate performers (and we know that they will in some cases take those awards away) you detract from the respect the sport is held in. Eventually people will know that the sport isn't totally legitimate and when someone they know says that they ran a marathon last weekend the reaction might be to shrug the accomplishment off because there is legitimate reason to question whether or not that truly happened.