Can I get to a sub 2:40 Marathon?

You will not be able to run a 2:40 marathon by May 9. I would put you at 2:55-3:00 for the marathon right now.

Work your way up to 70-90 mpw over the next 2-3 years and get a good marathon training plan. If you have a lot of talent and some fast guys to run with, you might get down below 2:50.

hmmm, I agree about your current time projections.

2-3 years of high mileage weeks seems very excessive though. I'm not going for 2:20. I guess we'll see.

Ohhh, you might be right.

That just seems like such a lot of training for that improvement (150+ weeks to drop my (projected) amateur marathon time by 5 minutes.

Just like you, I've never run a marathon. But...

Of course you felt amazing in Miami. You did the first 10.1 miles at ten seconds slower per mile than your HM pace, so you had a ton left in the tank. That's a fine way to enjoy an HM, but not an optimal pacing strategy.

Honestly, 1:21:10 seems like an amazing PR for the low-mileage, haphazard training you've been doing. You probably have some serious talent if you can run 1:21:10 off of weekly mileage and a modest long run.

And no, you are not going to touch 2:40 in May. Your current HM PR suggests something more like 2:50, but that assumes appropriate marathon training, which you aren't doing. If you fell to pieces in your first marathon, that's a good indicator that you are not doing appropriate marathon training.

So here are some marathon training trips from a non-marathon runner:

o You will need to increase your weekly mileage. Maybe 50% or more, to 60+ miles per week.

o You will need to increase your long run to 16-20+ miles.

o You will need to slow down your daily pace, not speed it up, so that you can increase your weekly mileage.

o You will need to do more running hear HM and MP, not in your daily training, but in workouts that have a specific purpose.

o You will have to learn more about training and design some deliberate workouts for yourself. Read some books. Barring that, get a good marathon training plan or a coach.

You expect to run 2 half marathons back to back with zero rest faster than your current half PB in about 3 months? 0/10. Nobody is this stupid.

Lol we have the same half time and im shooting for 2:50 in june... One of us is way off

living a pipe dream i guess.

You can still bugger off home to your backwards flowing toilet in the land down under. Where women glow and men plunder.

Yea, maybe i should try to get into boston and then train for another 11 months and see what happens at that race.

Good luck in June

Thanks for the advice!

I'm looking at ordering Daniels Running Formula.

As for 60+ mpw, i might be able to get there with my current schedule. I see now that it's gonna take a lot more miles per week to get to 2:40. Maybe 2:50 should be my intermediate goal.

Increase Long Runs- Check

Slow Daily Pace with some more specific workouts- I will try to actually have a goal with my miles now.

Do you ever use VO2 Max and HR calculations to tailor your training?

I agree with others. You can do it but not in 14 weeks. Long range plan and build your mileage.

You will not get it on 60 miles per week either.

You need to be hitting at least 80. It's going to take some time to get there.

I was around 40mpw, 1:21HM and I ran a 2:53.

It took me another year hitting 70-100mpw to dip into the mid 2:30s

Realistically to run sub 2:40 you need to be in 1:15 HM shape.

50-60 mpw is plenty to run a good HM but not enough for a full. I would focus on the HM until you get stronger. Get your HM times down first, then start thinking about the marathon. What your most recent 5k time?

The number one thing in my book for running a strong HM is a lot of tempo running. 5-6 mile tempos are great. On days where you're feeling good these can get within a couple seconds of HMP. I would incorporate something like 3x2m @HMP as well. This type of training should get you in shape for a quick HM, and will also be something you can build upon for the full.

Until your HM is under 1:20 even getting near 2:50 for the full will take a perfect race. Until you get enough mileage and MP runs in your legs, you're likely to keep falling apart at mile 20...

Highly unlikely. I ran a 2:43 marathon off a 1:19 HM best and I could carry my pace over a long distance better than anyone else I knew.

just for you to compare, i have a 75'50 HM Personal Best and never ran under 2h40 for the Marathon. My PB is 2h41'18". I can run 1h21 Half Marathon relatively easily in training. I've actually ran a 1h20'50" a week ago, in the middle of a ~ 60 miles/week.

though i have never tried high mileage, i have been consistely training for 5+ years about 50 miles a week on average, with just a few periods running less.

In 2011 my HM PR was 1h21 just like you.(and 2h54 for the Full Marathon with bad splits of 1h24/1h30, I could probably have run a 2h52 with better pacing)

In about 12 months I ran a low 1h18 (2012)

In 2013 I ran a 1h16'27" (and a 3h25 Marathon as part of an Ironman)

In 2014 I ran a 1h15'50" and a 2h41 Marathon

In 2015 i finished one in 1h17 after running 34'40" for the first 10k (I maybe had a 1h14 that day but went out too fast, ridiculous 17'10" for the first 5k).

I also finished a 2h51 Marathon in Berlin whilst probably at the best shape of my life, but ran a low 1h18 for the first half, had very bad blisters and barely jogged in the end. I had probably a 2h39 had I started at 1h19'45 and not 1'30" faster than that.

in 2016 i basically took an year off competitions.

for the moment training hard to drop my HM Time to 1h14 at least and finally achieve a 2h3X Marathon.

- I think *most* sub 2:40 guys require consistent 70-90 mile weeks.

- I recommend Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger. I'm generally following his 18 week 86+mpw plan and am shooting for a similar time as you this Spring.

- If you haven't already, look at the Letsrun threads on Hadd training. You'll ideally want to have your aerobic system conditioned enough that you can run the marathon around 90% max heart rate average without blowing up.

Really doesn't sound like you want to commit to the work, to be quite honest. If you don't want to spend a few years in the 70s, Daniel's training plan would probably rip you apart. You only have to workouts a week, but they're knock you dead workouts.

This is from phase II, 2 easy, 6 marathon pace, 1 tempo pace (5:50), 5 marathon pace, 1 Tempo, 1 marathon, 2 mile cooldown. That **** every week, or something like it.

The other workout is a long tempo (8ish miles) or cross country style repeats, like 8-10x1kilometre

That sort of plan requires you're running around 75+ miles, at a minimum. If you're down, that's awesome, but I wouldn't want you to read it just to feel like you bit off way too much.

Ironically, I'm running Eugene with a similar time goal, as others have said though, my PR is down around 1:15.

ishfish1, slow down your easy days to 8 minutes a mile and start doubling now so you get in 70-80 a week and hit the long run each week hard like 6flat-6:30 and you can get under 2:50 in 14 weeks.

You can keep the mileage you're averaging currently weekly, but you will need to increase your long runs (hit a few 15-18 once a month). This could actually mean you hit 10+ more miles on that week than you're weekly average, but then you can go back to it after that week, though I'd recommend 50s consistently. I would take one day off and still average this mileage.

I would really encourage you to do some hills and don't even look at pace, just push yourself to a rhythm that's giving you a workout. Also, doing some tempos once a week or so would be good. As you get closer to the marathon race, do some speed (800s or 1000s) to sharpen things up and stop doing the hills.

I did this averaging 50-55 a week and ran 2:40. I probably would average 6:40 for my running though, with some slower days. This would be the same pace I'd hit on the hills. With the same program I ran 1:14 half. I'm working on getting under 2:40 and will be adding a few more things, such as more interval workouts with my base work being the same program I followed.

Good luck!

The arithmetic is pretty clear it seems. If a runner cannot run a 6 minute pacing split for a 1/2 marathon, it is impossible that he/she could could do the 6 minute pacing require for a full marathon i.e. 2:39 or less. The attrition rate after 20 miles alone would decimate that expectation. The 1/2 needs to be a minimum of 1:11 to 1:13 range which, when given the combination of a sufficient amount of long runs, 15-20 miles, and anaerobic speed sessions or sub 6 minute 10Ks in the training mode, might on a perfect day get an athlete slightly under 2:40. Breaking 3 hours is a totally different discussion that a sub 2:40. It takes years of healthy running in the training environment, tremendous motivation, combined with good luck and a sense of true pacing on race day to break 2:40.