Imagine the ditched aircraft is a vehicle, same principles apply:
http://markjefferiesairdisplays.com/2014/01/survival-techniques-pilot/
Imagine the ditched aircraft is a vehicle, same principles apply:
http://markjefferiesairdisplays.com/2014/01/survival-techniques-pilot/
PLWF wrote:
letsclarify wrote:Man saves stupid wife.
Survival:
If in a vehicle, stay with it.
I understand the principle and didn't realize until I read from the link that you can go 3 weeks without food but at some point I think they were likely going to set out on foot. If no one knew where they were and it was going to be a few days before they noticed you were missing (they were on vacation) would you just stay there?
I bet some of those Forest Service roads don't get traffic for months. Maybe there are snow mobilers. Sounds like 2 days later a snow storm came through.
The tech blogger guy I think waited a week before setting out foot.
Northern Arizona weather usually is pretty mild and sunny during the day in the winter. Key is to set out when it's decent weather.
I just looked it up. The days they were stranded were decent weather (this place is likely within 20 miles of where they were)
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/jacob-lake-az/86022/december-weather/2123857I think they got stuck on the 22nd and that's the day she set off on foot. It shows 44/34 for the weather that day (the news reports also say there was a blizzard but other reports said she was in mud. I'm not buying the blizzard based on the weather) and slightly colder the next day. If the sun is out in Northern Arizona that's not bad weather. No sun makes it a lot colder.
If the husband and kid hiked 15 miles to get help then the key for them was they did it during the day. I'd like to hear why their ordeal was much easier if they hiked that far.
Wtfunny wrote:
... Everything is contextual.
It's useful for me to review mishaps and decisions with guides I work with, but that's because we can dig through all those contextual nuances. Those things matter.
...
You are being overly generous here. When an Alaskan guide gets in a sticky situation, it's because of nuance. When a wilderness noob has a near-death experience like this, it's because of ignorant blunders. The classic line was in a long-ago letter to Dear Abby: "I don't need to walk a mile in someone else's shoes to know their laces are untied."
When I read about these types of survival stories (or tragic death stories), I often notice that the involved parties were not prepared for the conditions that they would encounter. It would have been much smarter to climb to hire ground for cell phone reception before hiking 30 frickin miles.
Quite frankly, I don't think they should be hailed as heroes, but rather used as a lesson for what NOT to do and how to prepare for such situations. When it comes to dangerous situations, it is better use precautions than try to be some sort of hero.
Just glad that they did not lose a family member in this situation.
Why didn't they just call someone? Guess they aren't AAA members.
letsclarify wrote:
Man saves stupid wife.
I bet dollars to donuts the husband was driving, the wife asked him to turn around, his answer was "I know what I'm doing." Then they got stuck, and like Sgt. Hulka in Stripes she said "F this" and set out for help.
PLWF wrote:
Survival:
If in a vehicle, stay with it.
The first rule of surviival is *not* "stay with the vehicle". The first rule is, if they are not looking for you, the odds they will find you are way worse. In *that* case, staying put might be the best thing to do, or it might just lead to starvation. Happened to Geraldine Largay, and in her case they *were* looking for her.
wejo wrote:
I understand the principle and didn't realize until I read from the link that you can go 3 weeks without food but at some point I think they were likely going to set out on foot. If no one knew where they were and it was going to be a few days before they noticed you were missing (they were on vacation) would you just stay there?
Final point. Staying put or going for help can be a tough call. But if you go for help, do it quick. Don't wait until you are weakened by lack of food or water.
The "don't eat snow" thing struck me as surely bunk, brief fact-checking reveals a popular but unsubstantiated claim that it will further dehydrate you. The closest thing to explaining why is a drop in core temperature.
Full hydration is what enables you to maintain core temperature to begin with. You may burn a lot of energy to stay warm, but unless your core temperature is unstable, you're not going to be hit by a little freshly-cooled water entering your stomach. You'll just use a little more energy, helped by that water, to keep your core temp stable.
Unless the temperature is very low, you won't suffer hypothermia out walking around. You will get frostbite if you lose a shoe though, which can quickly disable and kill you. So if you're not equipped to travel in snow, your odds are much better staying where you are and wrapping up in warm shit to wait the weather out. Eating snow to stay hydrated.
wejo wrote:
Wtfunny wrote:But I gave up trying to read through your post because of the way the embedly feed distorts the content container and cuts off half of what you said in every line of your post. On an iPad, Safari.
Maybe get this fixed.
Anyone else have this problem? Embedly works great for me on chrome and my phone (Android)
Me. I can't read half the posts here anymore.
Morons. North Rim in December, 8000-9000 feet elevation. Blindly following a car GPS. Couldn't be bothered to read a Kaibab Nat Forest map or do any research. Or be prepared in any way. And she's a professor? Hahaha!
Jkj wrote:
Morons. North Rim in December, 8000-9000 feet elevation. Blindly following a car GPS. Couldn't be bothered to read a Kaibab Nat Forest map or do any research. Or be prepared in any way. And she's a professor? Hahaha!
This. I've run RRR every year for the past 6 years, and the amount of idiots no longer surprises me.
.Xkdkh wrote:
wejo wrote:Anyone else have this problem? Embedly works great for me on chrome and my phone (Android)
Me. I can't read half the posts here anymore.
I can hardly use my desktop anymore because I have to keep recovering the page as the system locks up every couple minutes. Doesn't do that on most other sites.
They had the car engine heat to melt the snow? Or just take it in the car in the daytime it will melt. Put it in something black?
Yes. Safari on the iPad.
TV labeling her a "hero" is offensive. She and her husband put a 10 year old child plus themselves at risk risk for death by making a really dumb series of decisions.... 'Big dummy mommy lucky to be alive speaks out" would be a more accurate intro.
The mom is hot! Or is just me?
Bad Wigins wrote:
The "don't eat snow" thing struck me as surely bunk, brief fact-checking reveals a popular but unsubstantiated claim that it will further dehydrate you. The closest thing to explaining why is a drop in core temperature.
Full hydration is what enables you to maintain core temperature to begin with. You may burn a lot of energy to stay warm, but unless your core temperature is unstable, you're not going to be hit by a little freshly-cooled water entering your stomach. You'll just use a little more energy, helped by that water, to keep your core temp stable.
Unless the temperature is very low, you won't suffer hypothermia out walking around. You will get frostbite if you lose a shoe though, which can quickly disable and kill you. So if you're not equipped to travel in snow, your odds are much better staying where you are and wrapping up in warm shit to wait the weather out. Eating snow to stay hydrated.
I always heard eating snow was--in fact--about lowing the body core temperature. BUT, if you have a water bottle, you can put the water body closer to your body (not directly against it) to melt the snow/raise the water temperature above freezing. This will keep you hydrated. (Likewise, you can pee in a water bottle--not to drink, but to keep you warm for a bit. Pee in it. Put the bottle directly next to the skin.)
Like someone else said, you can put snow in something from the car, such as the air cleaner lid, and put it on the idling engine to warm up or on the hood of the car (cleared of snow to conduct heat better) during daylight hours to melt the snow. Yes, the water might be a bit dirty, but it's still safe to drink.
If you're staying with the car & starting it at random intervals, make sure the exhaust pipe is clear of snow.
Also, you can further insulate yourself by putting DRY leaves inside your coat/shirt too.
Think about what you can use from the car too. The glove box door, broken off, could be used as a shovel (versus digging with your hands). Pulling the fabric roof liner from your car is an additional blanket, shirt, socks. (Same with the carpeting in the trunk.) Always take the mirror from the sun visor or side mirrors on the door.
Alan Bennet wrote:
letsclarify wrote:Man saves stupid wife.
I bet dollars to donuts the husband was driving, the wife asked him to turn around, his answer was "I know what I'm doing." Then they got stuck, and like Sgt. Hulka in Stripes she said "F this" and set out for help.
.
So because he did something dumb she thought being dumber was a good idea?
Very helpful post. Thank you.
Don't Eat the YELLOW Snow wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:The "don't eat snow" thing struck me as surely bunk, brief fact-checking reveals a popular but unsubstantiated claim that it will further dehydrate you. The closest thing to explaining why is a drop in core temperature.
Full hydration is what enables you to maintain core temperature to begin with. You may burn a lot of energy to stay warm, but unless your core temperature is unstable, you're not going to be hit by a little freshly-cooled water entering your stomach. You'll just use a little more energy, helped by that water, to keep your core temp stable.
Unless the temperature is very low, you won't suffer hypothermia out walking around. You will get frostbite if you lose a shoe though, which can quickly disable and kill you. So if you're not equipped to travel in snow, your odds are much better staying where you are and wrapping up in warm shit to wait the weather out. Eating snow to stay hydrated.
I always heard eating snow was--in fact--about lowing the body core temperature. BUT, if you have a water bottle, you can put the water body closer to your body (not directly against it) to melt the snow/raise the water temperature above freezing. This will keep you hydrated. (Likewise, you can pee in a water bottle--not to drink, but to keep you warm for a bit. Pee in it. Put the bottle directly next to the skin.)
Like someone else said, you can put snow in something from the car, such as the air cleaner lid, and put it on the idling engine to warm up or on the hood of the car (cleared of snow to conduct heat better) during daylight hours to melt the snow. Yes, the water might be a bit dirty, but it's still safe to drink.
If you're staying with the car & starting it at random intervals, make sure the exhaust pipe is clear of snow.
Also, you can further insulate yourself by putting DRY leaves inside your coat/shirt too.
Think about what you can use from the car too. The glove box door, broken off, could be used as a shovel (versus digging with your hands). Pulling the fabric roof liner from your car is an additional blanket, shirt, socks. (Same with the carpeting in the trunk.) Always take the mirror from the sun visor or side mirrors on the door.
Screw that noise son. I've got a collapsing shovel, expensive heavy duty tire traction strips, car battery charger, 4 gauge, 20 feet jumper cables, winter clothing, first aid kit, SAM splint device, tow rope, food, water, air compressor, extra phone, emergency solar/windup radio, leatherman wave multitool, military flashlights, jaco tire pressue gauge, swedish fire starter....etc...in my car trunk.
Ready for almost anything. My GLR teammtes will be freaked if I do it for first time this year haha. I even have extra tire caps.
Probssnothd wrote:
Don't Eat the YELLOW Snow wrote:I always heard eating snow was--in fact--about lowing the body core temperature. BUT, if you have a water bottle, you can put the water body closer to your body (not directly against it) to melt the snow/raise the water temperature above freezing. This will keep you hydrated. (Likewise, you can pee in a water bottle--not to drink, but to keep you warm for a bit. Pee in it. Put the bottle directly next to the skin.)
Like someone else said, you can put snow in something from the car, such as the air cleaner lid, and put it on the idling engine to warm up or on the hood of the car (cleared of snow to conduct heat better) during daylight hours to melt the snow. Yes, the water might be a bit dirty, but it's still safe to drink.
If you're staying with the car & starting it at random intervals, make sure the exhaust pipe is clear of snow.
Also, you can further insulate yourself by putting DRY leaves inside your coat/shirt too.
Think about what you can use from the car too. The glove box door, broken off, could be used as a shovel (versus digging with your hands). Pulling the fabric roof liner from your car is an additional blanket, shirt, socks. (Same with the carpeting in the trunk.) Always take the mirror from the sun visor or side mirrors on the door.
Screw that noise son. I've got a collapsing shovel, expensive heavy duty tire traction strips, car battery charger, 4 gauge, 20 feet jumper cables, winter clothing, first aid kit, SAM splint device, tow rope, food, water, air compressor, extra phone, emergency solar/windup radio, leatherman wave multitool, military flashlights, jaco tire pressue gauge, swedish fire starter....etc...in my car trunk.
Ready for almost anything. My GLR teammtes will be freaked if I do it for first time this year haha. I even have extra tire caps.
I totally agree that you should be prepared for winter travel with food, water, blankets, fire starter, extra clothes, shovel, etc. I was just posting some trivia/helpful hints.
In a similar vein, it baffles me about people who don't have tools in their car (tire jack, wrenches, screwdrivers, jumper cables, spare fuses, road flares, etc.).