Using the term mileage to describe Michael Johnson's training would be misleading. You also would be incorrect to describe his "easy" days as aerobic.
Using the term mileage to describe Michael Johnson's training would be misleading. You also would be incorrect to describe his "easy" days as aerobic.
trackhead is an idiot, don't listen to him...just type in Granville in the search engine and look how many times he does the same rant and race without specific back up
? wrote:
trackhead is an idiot, don't listen to him...just type in Granville in the search engine and look how many times he does the same rant and race without specific back up
Instead of calling trackhead an idiot, why don't you come up with a better theory instead of just bitching about it?
STL Runner,I merely pointing out that if you search for the Granville thread he states the same thing over and over but no "concrete" facts...he justs posts times over the years...look for yourself
I wish I had MJ's training in front of me -- I have some samples in a book but it's out on loan. I know when I added it all up I was suprised to find that only about 25% of his running was "hard."
John Smith has said his top runners (ie Greene) will run 30-35mpw when all is said and done. If you figure in a 2mi warmup/cooldown and 1 mi worth of drills five days per week, and one day of a 4-5mi run, that's 25-30mi right there.
I think that Granville got burned -- talented kids who do lots of track work often improve up to a point, and then that's it. Here are some articles:
Title: Metabolic and Hormonal Responses to Exercise in Children and Adolescents , By: Boisseau, N., Delamarche, P., Sports Medicine, 0112-1642, December 1, 2000, Vol. 30, Issue 6
Database: Academic Search Elite
Section: REVIEW ARTICLE
Metabolic and Hormonal Responses to Exercise in Children and Adolescents
3.1.3 Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP), Phosphocreatine and Glycogen Stores
Colling-Saltin[23,36] has reported changes in muscle metabolic properties that follow the development from fetus to adult. Muscle ATP levels appear very low in the fetus (approximately 0.5 mmol/kg of wet muscle). This muscle content increases rapidly after birth and reaches 5 mmol/kg (wet muscle), a similar figure to that in adult skeletal muscle. According to Colling-Saltin,[36] PCr follows the same progressive increase during the first year of life.
ATP and PCr muscle stores do not differ between children/adolescents and adults.[12,29,37] Indeed, after taking muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis of the quadriceps femoris, Eriksson et al.[37] reported that resting ATP and PCr levels are similar in healthy 13-year-old boys and adult males (ATP ˜ 5 mmol/kg of wet muscle and PCr ˜ 17 mmol/kg of wet muscle). In a follow-up study, Eriksson and Saltin [29] extended this study for different age-groups (boys of mean age 11.6, 12.6, 13.5 or 15.5 years) and showed that ATP and PCr concentrations at rest were comparable to values found in adults.
In contrast, liver and muscle glycogen stores, expressed in g/kg, are lower in children than in adults.[38,39] Bougnères et al.[38] and Schiffrin and Colle[39] reported that liver glycogen was restricted to 15g for a baby weighing 10 kg. Moreover, there are age-dependent variations in liver glycogen production and glucose uptake by the CNS under resting conditions. A child produces about 6 mg/kg/min of liver glycogen, with glucose uptake by the CNS reaching 4 mg/kg/min. In contrast, an adult liver (with a total glycogen store of about 100g) produces nearly 1.7 mg/kg/min of glycogen while the glucose uptake by the CNS is restricted to 0.86 mg/kg/min of glucose. This could lead to greater glycogen store depletion in children than in adults.[38,39] Different studies have shown the glycogen content of muscle in children to be 50 to 60% of that of adults,[37,40] but this low amount increases with maturation.[29] Thus, in Eriksson and Saltin's study[29] muscle glycogen levels at rest were 54 mmol/kg of wet muscle, glucose units for the 11.6-year-old boys, and increased to 70, 69 and 87 mmol/kg of wet muscle for the 12.6, 13.5 and 15.5-year-old boys, respectively. The values in the oldest boys were similar to those observed in sedentary adults.[29]
3.1.4 ATP Rephosphorylation, Glycolysis Capacity and Enzyme Activities
Using 31PNMR, Petersen et al.[15] suggested that glycolytic metabolism in physically active children is not maturity-dependent. Indeed, no significant differences in the mean values for intracellular pH or the Pi: PCr ratio were observed in prepubertal (10 to 11 years) and pubertal(15 to 16 years) girls during exercise. However, using the same technique, Zanconato et al.[12] and Kuno et al.[14] have shown that pre adolescent children (7 to 10 years) and adolescents (12 to 15 years), both trained and untrained, are less able than adults to achieve ATP rephosphorylation by anaerobic metabolic pathways during high intensity exercise. This observation could result either from changes in the mechanism of glycolysis in muscles or from a different pattern of fibre type recruitment.
Limited studies have suggested that children have a lower anaerobic or glycolytic capacity for supplying ATP during high intensity exercise.[37,40] It would be reasonable to assume that lower glycolytic capacity in children is not related to fibre distribution (see section 3.1.2), but to a difference in muscle metabolism as compared with adults. The limited data available on paediatric glycolytic capacity are characterised by small sample sizes and must therefore be interpreted with caution. This immaturity of glycolytic ability may be explained by lower activities of anaerobic enzymes such as lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) and phosphofructokinase-1 (PFK),[40,41] and by glycogen content.[29,37] Accordingly, Eriksson et al.[40] showed that boys aged 11 to 13 years had a 50% lower PFK activity than adults. However, anaerobic enzyme activity evolves with pubertal maturation.[41-43] Thus, in studies using more 'mature' individuals, other reports have failed to detect adolescent-adult differences in various glycolytic enzymes including LDH and PFK.[41,44] Furthermore, some studies did report higher levels of oxidative enzymes such as succinate dehydrogenase (SDH) and isocitrate dehydrogenase (ICDH) in children than in adults.[27,40,41] Differences in the ratio of PFK to ICDH between children (0.884) and adults (1.633) indicate greater pyruvate oxidation in young individuals,[41] which suggests that children are more able than adults to use aerobic pathways.
3.1.5 Lactate Production, Intramuscular pH and Buffering System
No difference is found at rest in muscle pH between children and adults.[12] The compromised ability to generate energy from glycolysis during exercise induces lower maximal muscle lactate levels in young individuals.[29,37,45] Accordingly, 31PNMR shows less reduction in intramuscular pH in children[12] and adolescents[14] than in adults during intense exercise.
Short term exercise elicits a gradual increase in maximal levels of muscle and plasma lactate which is related to pubertal maturation.[29,37,45] When comparing preadolescent individuals and adults during a graded exercise test, Rostein et al.[46] reported lower blood lactate levels in the younger individuals. During an exercise test on a cycle ergometer (pedal rate of 60 rpm) performed by 4 groups of children (mean ages 11.6, 12.6, 13.5 and 14.5 years), Eriksson and Saltin[29] reported that muscle lactate production increased with age. Maximal blood lactate levels appear to be directly related to increased testicular volume[37] and testosterone levels in saliva.[47]
Crielaard et al.[48] showed a positive correlation between plasma (or blood) lactate and anaerobic performance. Additionally, Zanconatto et al.[12] and Kuno et al.[14] reported a relationship between anaerobic performance and the production of H+ in children aged 7 to 10 years and adolescents aged 12 to 15 years.
The pubertal growth spurt involves increases in bone mass that contribute to enhancement of bicarbonate storage capacity. This increased buffering capacity explains the ability of adolescents to sustain lower pH values in muscle and blood during strenuous exercise.[49,50] According to Matejkova et al.,[50] the ability to buffer excess H+ increases at a rate of between 0.001 and 0.002 pH units per year from the age of 8 up to the age of 18 years. Along the same lines, plasma buffer excess decreases from 1.0 to 1.5 meq/L/year.
3.1.6 Catecholamine Responses
During high intensity exercise, the sympatho-adrenal system and catecholamines (adrenaline and nor adrenaline) affect substrate mobilisation.[51] In addition, adrenaline has been shown to be a potent stimulator of muscle glycolysis.[52,53] In intense anaerobic exercise, increases in catecholamine levels are higher than in prolonged aerobic exercise in both adults[54] and children.[55,56] Pullinen et al.[56] showed that young male athletes aged 15 ± 1 years (mean ± standard deviation) experienced reduced sympathetic nervous activity during 4 different half squatting exercises when compared with adult male athletes aged 25 ± 6 years. The authors suggested that exhausting resistance exercise may induce a lower sympathic response in younger individuals than in adults, with no differences in adrenal medulla activity.
3.1.7 Effects of Training on Anaerobic Metabolism
There are few publications dealing with the effects of training on anaerobic metabolism in children and adolescents. Different studies have reported that a training session may increase ATP, PCr and glycogen muscle stores in adults[57,58] and children.[43] Eriksson[59] suggested that training also increases substrate utilisation in young individuals, because of an increase in activities of muscle enzymes. Thorstensson et al.[60] supported this hypothesis by reporting increases in activity (of 20 to 35%) of adenylate kinase and phosphocreatine kinase. In addition, these increases were related to raised muscle and blood lactate levels during maximal exercise. These data suggest that strength training enhances glycolytic activity, although these adaptations return to basal levels if training ceases.[27]
3.1.8 Conclusions and Practical Considerations
Because muscle ATP and PCr levels at rest are similar in children/adolescents and adults, it appears, from a practical viewpoint, that the capacity for physical activity of young individuals is not impaired as long as the duration of exercise does not exceed 10 to 15 seconds. Thus, sports such as short distance running and swimming, jumping, shooting, etc., are easily undertaken by young athletes.
Conversely, it seems that preadolescents may have some difficulty in maintaining high intensity activities of durations ranging from 15 seconds to 1 to 2 minutes. Indeed, energy delivery from anaerobic metabolism appears to be limited because of immature glycolytic capacity and, possibly, by reduced sympathic nervous activity. For these reasons, physical activities such as middle distance running or swimming must be carefully and progressively introduced in young athletes to allow for adaptation.
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Title: Physiological Issues Surrounding the Performance of Adolescent Athletes , By: Naughton, G., Farpour-Lambert, N.J., Carlson, J., Bradney, M., van Praagh, E., Sports Medicine, 0112-1642, November 1, 2000, Vol. 30, Issue 5
Database: Academic Search Elite
3.1 Anaerobic Performances in Adolescence
The power generated per kilogram of bodyweight during high intensity anaerobic exercise is lower in adolescents than in adults.[31-33] Various physiological mechanisms have been postulated to explain the lower anaerobic power in younger populations. These include lower levels of phosphofructokinase (PFK) which is a rate-limiting enzyme of the glycolytic pathway,[34] lower sympathoadrendal activity,[35] maturational differences in muscle fibre distribution[36] and immature anabolic hormonal responses such as lower levels of testosterone.[31]
Increased anaerobic potential refers to enhanced rates of ATP release via ATP-PCr (phosphocreatine) catabolism or the breakdown of stored or transported carbohydrate in active tissue under high intensity exercise demands. A progressively increased anaerobic potential in boys during adolescence compared with preadolescence is supported by studies of increased enzymatic activity,[36] anaerobic performance (defined by postexercise oxygen consumption) and serum lactate levels.[37]
In previous decades, researchers of adult-based studies have been advancing their understanding of the energy demands of high intensity exercise by using invasive procedures such as muscle biopsies. Because of ethical and moral constraints, less is known about the metabolic mechanisms and limitations of exercise responses in healthy adolescents. More recently, phosphorus nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy (31PMRS) has been used as a well tolerated, noninvasive measurement of intracellular inorganic phosphate (Pi), PCr, ATP and pH. Increases in the ratios of these variables can reflect accelerated anaerobic glycolysis. For example, there is an increase in the Pi to PCr ratio with progressive exercise demands. This ratio has been observed to be smaller in children than in adults.[38] More specifically, children were reported to achieve a post-exercise Pi to PCr ratio that was only 27% of the adult value.[38]
Kuno et al.[39] reported PCr to PCr + Pi ratios that were similar between untrained and trained 12- to 17-year-old adolescents but these values were higher than those observed in adults. Cooper and Barstow[38] concluded that 'inherent muscle properties', which were yet to be identified, were most likely responsible for poorer anaerobic responses associated with younger populations compared with adults.
Despite the attractiveness of the 31PMRS methodology, only 1 other study involving healthy adolescents has been published.[40] In this study, skeletal muscle metabolism during short term high intensity exercise was compared in prepubertal and pubertal female swimmers (n = 18). Intracellular pH and phosphorus responses during submaximal and supramaximal plantar flexion exercise were compared between the 2 groups of participants. No between-group differences were reported following submaximal exercise. However, a lower Pi to PCr ratio was observed in the prepubertal group compared with the pubertal group following supra-maximal exercise. This finding was linked to a larger area of cross-sectional muscle mass in the more mature girls than in the prepubertal group and was therefore perceived as a 'size-' rather than a maturity-dependent response. Limitations of the 31PMRS methodology may preclude acceptable between-group comparisons because morphological differences are unable to be controlled. The authors therefore believed that their results could not support an augmented glycolytic contribution to energy expenditure during puberty.[40] However, there is a strong indication that future research using the 31PMRS method in combination with other methods which help account for differences in size and fibre type will be useful in determining the short and long term skeletal muscle responses to exercise in both genders as they progress through puberty.
Bar-Or[31] contended that younger populations should be encouraged to pursue a number of different physical activities. Conversely, adolescence is thought to be the optimal time to specialise in physical activity. In adolescent boys, the gains in muscle mass and body size appear to enhance the potential for anaerobic trainability.
Fournier et al.[41] examined the skeletal muscle adaptations in 16 adolescent boys who had undergone either endurance or sprint training over a 3-month period. The activities of a glycolytic enzyme (PFK) and an aerobic enzyme (succinate dehydrogenase) were analysed following pre-and postintervention biopsies from the vastus lateralis. The activity of PFK increased by 21% in association with training in the sprint trained group only. A subsequent biopsy 6 months after the study revealed that the activity of this anaerobic enzyme had returned to pretraining levels.
However, there are no anaerobic training studies comparing trainability cross-sectionally through the different pubertal stages. The inherent difficulties in anaerobic training studies include a lack of agreement on what denotes anaerobic training, the complex masking effects of hormonal factors with training responses during puberty and the difficulties in matching exercise and control groups.[42] The difficulties in matching exercise and control groups are due to problems in matching pubertal status, training status, training history and body composition between the 2 groups. In addition, in contrast to the studies where gender comparisons can be readily conducted with prepubertal groups, factors that need to be considered for gender comparisons of anaerobic trainability during adolescence become even more complex. Consequently, the responses of well-matched male and female adolescents to the short and long term stresses involved with anaerobic training is poorly described in the literature. Therefore, it is apparent from the limited data available that the understanding of anaerobic trainability during adolescence requires further research; however, the training outcomes appear to be specific and transient.
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(sorry, don't have the full article online -- I'll have to check it out of the library later on)
Impaired pituitary hormonal response to exhaustive exercise in overtrained endurance athletes.
Urhausen A, Gabriel HH, Kindermann W.
Institute of Sports and Preventive Medicine, University of Saarland, Saarbrucken, Germany.
The aim of the present prospective longitudinal study was to investigate the hormonal response in overtrained athletes at rest and during exercise consisting of a short-term exhaustive endurance test on a cycle ergometer at an intensity 10% above the individual anaerobic threshold. Over a period of 19+/-1 months, 17 male endurance athletes (cyclists and triathletes; age 23.4+/-1.6 yr; VO2max. 61.2+/-1.8 mL x min(-1) x kg(-1); means+/-SEM) were examined five times on two separate days under standardized conditions. Short-term overtraining states (OT, N=15) were primarily induced by an increase of frequency of high-intensive bouts of exercise or competitions without increase of the total amount of training. OT was compared with normal training states intraindividually (NS, N=62). During OT, the time to exhaustion of the exercise test was significantly decreased by 27% on average. At rest and during exercise, the concentrations in plasma and the nocturnal excretion in urine of free epinephrine and norepinephrine were not significantly changed during OT. At physical rest, the concentrations of (free) testosterone, cortisol, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, adrenocorticotropic hormone, growth hormone, and insulin during OT were comparable with those during NS. A significantly (P < 0.025) lower maximal exercise-induced increase of the adrenocorticotropic hormone and growth hormone, as well as a trend for a decrease of cortisol (P=0.060) and insulin (P=0.036), was measured. The response of free catecholamines as well as the ergometric performance of an all-out 30-s test was unchanged. Serum urea, uric acid, ferritin, and activity of creatine kinase showed no differences between conditions. In conclusion, the results confirm the hypothesis of a hypothalamo-pituitary dysregulation during OT expressed by an impaired response of pituitary hormones to exhaustive short-endurance exercise.
HS Frosh: 1:51.03 1993 Mike Granville
HS Soph: 1:48.98 1994 Mike Granville
HS Junior: 1:47.96 1995 Mike Granville
HS Senior: 1:46.45 5/31/1996 Mike Granville
What a machine...then?
Well ... we'd all love to make a comparative assessment as to whether you're more of less of an idiot than trackhead, but, alas, you lack the courage and the will to post under anything more than a single "?".
How shall we "look for oursleves" to find your previous posts?
Until you're willing to put you're own record on the line - at least in terms of consistent posts - then I suggest you crawl back under the rock from whence you came.
trackhead has been making a positive contribution to this board for at least two years - posting under the same name each and every time. He's provided others with DVDs, made on his own time, for virtually no profit.
You, by contrast, are a semi-literate chump who's contributions to this forum would have plenty of space to roam on the head of a pin.
Get Bent.
Martin
Martin,
I can't tell you how much I appreciate this post. Especially given the fact that, we both know that we don't always see eye to eye when it comes to the subject of middle distance training.
Hope all is well with the family and that the DJ doesn't keep you too busy.
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On the subject of Granville, I've heard that a) his father was a dictator and b) he did lots and lots of track work. I also hear that he is an incredibly friendly and amicable guy. This is in no way personal, just analytical w/ respect to training. Like a friend of mine from HS -- she was very, very good (state champion I think in XC) and a 4:51 miler early on in HS -- but she never ran more than 15 or 20 mpw and all her work was on the track and her father was a former SEAL whose primary concern was getting her into Stanford, all else be damned. She never, ever ran faster than that 4:51. HS was it.