Ritz or Mottram

I said Ritz wouldnt finish inside top 40 in world x and I was right.people slated me for saying this.

Now the chips are down after world x and I think this time Ritz will prove the doubthers wrong including me.

Ritz will run an amazing time here and will beat Mottram.

Ritz is overated - Best two white guys in the world are Mottram and Cragg - hands down

Ritz may be able to make an impresssion at some stage just not yet.

Look at the Iaaf world rankings..

1. (1.) Kenenisa BEKELE 82 ETH 1454

2. (2.) Eliud KIPCHOGE 84 KEN 1370

3. (5.) Mushir Salim JAWHER 78 BRN 1343

4. (7.) Ahmad Hassan ABDULLAH 81 QAT 1342

5. (6.) John Kemboi KIBOWEN 69 KEN 1340

6. (8.) Boniface Kiprotich SONGOK 80 KEN 1337

7. (12.) Dejene BERHANU 80 ETH 1330

8. (3.) Gebre−egziabher GEBREMARIAM 84 ETH 1328

9. (9.) Mulugeta WONDIMU 85 ETH 1326

10. (10.) Boniface KIPROP 85 UGA 1312

11. (11.) James KWALIA C'KURUI 84 QAT 1297

12. (13.) Augustine Kiprono CHOGE 87 KEN 1292

13. (14.) Richard LIMO 80 KEN 1284

14. (15.) Craig MOTTRAM 80 AUS 1281

15. (17.) Mark BETT 76 KEN 1274

15. (18.) Zersenay TADESSE 82 ERI 1274

17. (15.) Charles KAMATHI 78 KEN 1253

18. (26.) Abraham CHEBII 79 KEN 1252

19. (19.) Hicham BELLANI 79 MAR 1250

20. (20.) Abderrahim GOUMRI 76 MAR 1244

21. (21.) José Manuel MARTÍNEZ 71 ESP 1238

22. (22.) Luke KIPKOSGEI 75 KEN 1236

22. (22.) Alistair Ian CRAGG 80 IRL 1236

24. (-) Moses MOSOP 85 KEN 1232

25. (24.) Paul BITOK 70 KEN 1228

26. (25.) John Cheruiyot KORIR 81 KEN 1218

26. (37.) Abebe DINKESA 84 ETH 1218

28. (26.) Joseph KOSGEI 74 KEN 1214

28. (26.) Mohamed AMINE 76 MAR 1214

30. (29.) Martin Irungu MATHATHI 85 KEN 1213

30. (29.) Markos GENETI 84 ETH 1213

32. (31.) Tariku BEKELE 87 ETH 1198

33. (32.) Abiyote ABATE 80 ETH 1196

34. (33.) Carles CASTILLEJO 78 ESP 1192

35. (35.) Günther WEIDLINGER 78 AUT 1190

36. (36.) Wilson BUSIENEI 81 UGA 1187

37. (37.) Khoudir AGGOUNE 81 ALG 1184

38. (39.) David KILEL 84 KEN 1178

38. (39.) Hillary CHENONGE 85 KEN 1178

40. (41.) Tim BROE 77 USA 1177

41. (42.) Ismail SGHYR 72 FRA 1174

42. (43.) Mark CARROLL 72 IRL 1169

43. (44.) James GETANDA 83 KEN 1168

43. (44.) Robert Sigei KIPNGETICH 82 KEN 1168

43. (33.) Fabiano JOSEPH 85 TAN 1168

46. (46.) Monder RIZKI 79 BEL 1167

47. (47.) Samir MOUSSAOUI 75 ALG 1165

48. (48.) Josphat Muchiri NDAMBIRI 85 KEN 1164

49. (49.) John MAYOCK 70 GBR 1159

50. (51.) Kamiel MAASE 71 NED 1147

SH1T he doesnt even make the top 50......

21 Africans. Look before you leap

http://www.iaaf.org/WXC05/results/gender=M/discipline=XS/combCode=hash/roundCode=f/index.html

Craig beat Tergat twice on the roads. He looks very smooth on the roads, would be a top marathon runner.

Maybe you should look more carefully JRinaldi,

Because unless Sergiy Lebid is secretly African you are wrong!

Ritz will be way better than Mottram in two years and I wouldn't be surprised to see him bitch slap Mottram this weekend. Mottram is not exempt, he gets it too.

More Likely wrote:

Ritz 5th in 13:4x

Yeah, because Dathan runs 13:40's so often. Well, I guess he does. He ran 13:51 and 13:44 in high school (4 years ago) and I think he ran around 13:40 when he was injured 2 years ago, then last spring he ran a couple 13:50's at Stanford to run the fastest an American collegian has ever run for 10k.

Maybe you are right.

"Hasn't done a thing? You're wrong, look at his fast 10k last year, for his first ever 10k that is pretty damn good, equivalent of 13:10 or so 5k I would say."

A 27:38 10k is worth a 13:18 5k. There is a world of difference between sub 13:00 and 13:18. That said, Ritz is a 10k specialist, while Mottram is a 5k specialist who is 2 or 3 years older than Ritz. When Ritz is 24, it is conceivable that he could run a sub 27:00 10k or very close, which is equivalent to a sub 13:00 5k.

What is Mottram's progression like?

The point of my post was to say that you can't compare Ritz to Motram right now, but in a few years, Ritz could be as good as Motram is right now.

Also, to add to this debate - Who would win right now in a 10K race on the track. I think this would be much closer and would love to see it happen.

(2004) World xc

9 353 Mottram Craig AUS 11:51

13 353 Mottram Craig AUS 37:10

(2005) World xc

22 330 Mottram Craig AUS 37:11

62 484 Ritzenhein Dathan USA 38:46

Ok, are we debating how good Ritz/Mottram is right now or are we guessing how good they will be in the future, because if we’re doing that I’m going to say that Augustine Kiprono choge, Bernard Kiprop Kipyego and Barnabas Kiplagat Kosgie (top 3 in junior race) will be better then Ritz, Augustine Kiprono Choge is already a better athlete.

As for right now Mottram has a sub 13 minutes to his name, a 9th place finish in the 2004 WCC in the short course and a 13th place in the long course, as well as 22nd in the long course in 2005.

Ritz the “10km specialist” as some called him isn’t even close to these results, if you haven’t forgotten your “super star” Ritz finished 62nd in worlds (the race that really counts)

So stop trying argue a point that is obviously leaning in one direction, even if Ritz beats Mottram this weekend(which I don’t see happening) he has a lot of ground to make up PR wise.

I'm predicting a road 5K PR for Ritz. That's a certainty- I believe it will be his first road 5K.

More seriously, perhaps a little payback for the blisters at the World CC, Ritz runs the race of his life to finish with a new American 5K road record. 13:22??

you're right. those rankings prove that ritz isn't in cragg's or mottram's class.

Mottram is very strong right now but I am not so sure he is fast yet. I predict 13:18 for Mottram and 13:23 for Ritz. Tinman

[quote]12km wrote:

Ritz the “10km specialist” as some called him isn’t even close to these results, if you haven’t forgotten your “super star” Ritz finished 62nd in worlds (the race that really counts)

quote]

if this race counts for so much why did so many runners skip it?

Sorry, I was way off; the Belfast International was the "most important" race of the year.

Who (that's worth mentioning) skipped Wxc?

yeah your of..WXC was loaded as hell this year.

and im not sure a 62nd place would look any better if it wasnt.