Zach Miller Ultra Runner - Possible Doper or Proof of Development Possibilities??

Sounds like calculo.......

Doesn't add up, doesn't add up!!

Maybe he has an offroad sigwheel and uses it to cut miles, maybe he drinks beet juice and redbull for hydration during the race, maybe he's just coming around with undertrained legs like you said, or perhaps he is doping?

Wow, that didn't take long. Is there any athlete on this earth you guys won't slander? Try getting out and putting in some real work, and maybe you can eventually accomplish something interesting in your life too.

Today's TNF50 Results:

1. Zach Miller 5:56

2. Hayden Hawks 5:58, 13:53 5k PR

3. David Laney 6:15, 14:03 5k PR, 2:17 marathon PR

Or there is the possibility that running a 5k at 4:30 pace is a poor indicator for ones ability to run 50 miles at 7:00 pace...

He seems very against it in this article. But so have other dopers. He wouldn't be the first PA Dutchie to get popped! (Floyd Landis)

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-mountain-running-men-in-the-grassroots-fight-against-doping

He lives a physical lifestyle off the grid at 10,000 feet. He's an aerobic machine

College times on tracks and manicured xc courses mean little. It gives you a lot better start than most but the main factor is specificity in training.

Hayden ran well today because he has trained on trails throughout his running and has put in a solid block of training going 136,139,120 over 3 weeks accumulating 35,000 ft of elevation gain.

Zach is an animal. I have raced against him (US Mountain Champs) and I am one of those 14-min guys. He is just a beast. Strong as hell. No fear. And now he has this Spartan lifestyle on Barr Camp, he just puts in unreal work (although none of it fast). I don't consider him a speedster, but I do consider him a grinder. Absolute monster on hard runs.

Kudos, Zach. Keep it up.

Zach:

" I don’t read that much, but I’ve been told that they’ve done studies and they say that the real benefit of altitude training is once you get about 8,000 feet. Some of the population will benefit from an elevation like 6,000 feet, but the likelihood that you’ll benefit is much higher above 8,000 feet and I’m living at 10,200 feet. I think that does the trick. It helps make me really strong."

That clip of him ahead of Hawkins at 40.8 mi is pretty amazing. His turnover, his power, at 40 miles, his sharpness, unreal. It's pretty awesome to watch that power.

glj/ wrote:

That clip of him ahead of Hawkins at 40.8 mi is pretty amazing. His turnover, his power, at 40 miles, his sharpness, unreal. It's pretty awesome to watch that power.

Here is a question:

Let's take the top 3 guys at TNF 50 mile run and have them all run a marathon on a 400m track against Eliud Kipchoge and Kenenisa Bekele.

How many times will they be lapped by Kipchoge and Bekele?

???

Altitude runner 11,500 ft. wrote:

glj/ wrote:

That clip of him ahead of Hawkins at 40.8 mi is pretty amazing. His turnover, his power, at 40 miles, his sharpness, unreal. It's pretty awesome to watch that power.

Here is a question:

Let's take the top 3 guys at TNF 50 mile run and have them all run a marathon on a 400m track against Eliud Kipchoge and Kenenisa Bekele.

How many times will they be lapped by Kipchoge and Bekele?

???

And the relevance of this is?

F@cking idiot...

To respond to a couple posts:

5k/marathon times are hugely predictive of ultra "potential". Anyone who has followed road marathons knows the same counter-argument was used for years and then really fast 5k/10k guys starting dominating marathons proving out this theory. Geoff Roes, Ultrarunner of year in 2009 & 2010 long argued that 5k speed didn't matter. However as a freshman at Syracuse University Roes ran about what Zach ran as a senior and then Roes quit XC/track due to injury. The likely progression Roes would have taken would have been to develop into a 14:10 - 14:30 athlete which equates very well to his best ultras. IMO Zach's best ultra performances are much better than Roes's best.

Typically if people are below "potential" for ultra its because of incorrect training (not enough hills or volume), over trainining, injury, etc.. The training weeks reported for Hayden sound very optimal and similar to how Walmsely has been training. Hayden's story checks out and the numbers all made sense.

Note that Zach made large performance jumps coming off the cruise ships. I'm skeptical of the 10,00 foot argument.

No one has yet posted examples of someone whom has made similar impressive performance jumps. Neither has anyone given examples that might explain Zach being very under-trained in college (mono, injury, not training in off-seasons, etc..).

The answer is:

A 2:03 marathoner would lap a 2:16 marathoner about 10 times.

That would be fun to watch.

There's no story here. Zach is just a much better runner on trails than roads or track. He has the build for that type of running and that makes a huge difference.

When I am doing exclusively trail running I beat people all the time who are much faster than me on the roads. My last race I beat a guy 13 minutes over 15 miles but couldn't get within 10 minutes of him in a road marathon.

The difference I see in myself is that when I am in my best trail shape (and that is just to run mostly half marathon and not ultras) I am a minute slower over 5k.

It takes me a few months of dedicated faster running to get that minute back.

Altitude runner 11,500 ft. wrote:

glj/ wrote:

That clip of him ahead of Hawkins at 40.8 mi is pretty amazing. His turnover, his power, at 40 miles, his sharpness, unreal. It's pretty awesome to watch that power.

Here is a question:

Let's take the top 3 guys at TNF 50 mile run and have them all run a marathon on a 400m track against Eliud Kipchoge and Kenenisa Bekele.

How many times will they be lapped by Kipchoge and Bekele?

???

If you have Downs I'm sorry. If not, I hope you get Aids. Idiot

Take those bananas wrote:

Altitude runner 11,500 ft. wrote:

Here is a question:

Let's take the top 3 guys at TNF 50 mile run and have them all run a marathon on a 400m track against Eliud Kipchoge and Kenenisa Bekele.

How many times will they be lapped by Kipchoge and Bekele?

???

If you have Downs I'm sorry. If not, I hope you get Aids. Idiot

Please do not forget my dementia.

Do you think I should use an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and/or N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor antagonist to treat my dementia?

(I am using both of them right now in addition to a selective Monamine oxidase-B inhibitor.)

Altitude runner 9,300 ft. wrote:

Take those bananas wrote:

If you have Downs I'm sorry. If not, I hope you get Aids. Idiot

Please do not forget my dementia.

Do you think I should use an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and/or N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor antagonist to treat my dementia?

(I am using both of them right now in addition to a selective Monamine oxidase-B inhibitor.)

I knew you were a doper