I only did 1 week of 70, the rest was around 60 at really easy pace, and for the most part I didn't do much in the way of workouts. I ran a 17:19 in my debut before doing the lower mileage preached by my coach. I tried to double but I usually did them after practice and probably wasn't really advancing my fitness. I don't have much natural speed, do you guys really think I'm not a long distance guy?
Pikachu wrote:
With those kind of times it's likely you're running too much for your fitness level and are digging a hole with 100 MPW. If I were you, I'd try to play a bit with the mileage. Have some big days, have some short days, have some high weeks and down weeks. Even mileage fanatics like myself are having an easy day here and there (I ran a couple times sub 2:20 for the marathon and do not have great speed).
IMO you should improve by a ton when you just do easy-moderate mileage, strides (and sometimes 2 - 3 miles of fast and relaxed 200 - 400s) and incorporate 1 tempo per week of 3 - 4 miles averaging roughly 90 - 92 % speed of your 5k time on the day or 6 - 10 miles at roughly 88 % speed of your 5k time in that day.
You are likely underdeveloped in terms of speed, muscular endurance and aerobically and it's important to hit those three zones: Speed (really short stuff), threshold (tempos), strength endurance (normal and progressive runs). The other stuff is more like icing on the cake.
Pikachu
Nailed it
Alright, so u guys don't think I've peaked?
psychrunner wrote:
Pikachu wrote:With those kind of times it's likely you're running too much for your fitness level and are digging a hole with 100 MPW. If I were you, I'd try to play a bit with the mileage. Have some big days, have some short days, have some high weeks and down weeks. Even mileage fanatics like myself are having an easy day here and there (I ran a couple times sub 2:20 for the marathon and do not have great speed).
IMO you should improve by a ton when you just do easy-moderate mileage, strides (and sometimes 2 - 3 miles of fast and relaxed 200 - 400s) and incorporate 1 tempo per week of 3 - 4 miles averaging roughly 90 - 92 % speed of your 5k time on the day or 6 - 10 miles at roughly 88 % speed of your 5k time in that day.
You are likely underdeveloped in terms of speed, muscular endurance and aerobically and it's important to hit those three zones: Speed (really short stuff), threshold (tempos), strength endurance (normal and progressive runs). The other stuff is more like icing on the cake.
Pikachu
+2 on this.
Ignore the guys who are telling you to run everything fast and to pack on the miles.
You are young and you are running relatively short races. The incremental difference between 70 mpw and 100 mpw for a 17 year old 2 mile/5k runner is not worth the injury risk.
Plus, as you get older, the odds are that you will gravitate towards longer and longer distances. If you don't develop some speed now through some reps and intervals (no one seems to have suggested regular interval sessions at 3k/5k race pace), you will never do it.
I cannot imagine a 17 year old has peaked - I have never really heard of that happening to a 17 year old boy. The annals of running are filled, however, with tales of teenage boys who burned themselves out by overtraining as young men.
Nailed it
Running 100 mpw and having it work for you is the result of long-term incremental training increases and innate physiological ability. It's not a prescription medication for improved performance. Really good runners who train 100 mpw do so because they have the strength to benefit from that training. Runners who aren't ready for that type of volume (and most never will be) simply break down or overwhelm their body's adaptive ability (in other words, you'll get injured, sick, or slower). Be smart. Do a variety of workouts, target incremental increases in training volume and intensity, and have patience--you're young, with years left to train more and run faster. Good luck!
Smoove wrote:
psychrunner wrote:+2 on this.
Ignore the guys who are telling you to run everything fast and to pack on the miles.
You are young and you are running relatively short races. The incremental difference between 70 mpw and 100 mpw for a 17 year old 2 mile/5k runner is not worth the injury risk.
Plus, as you get older, the odds are that you will gravitate towards longer and longer distances. If you don't develop some speed now through some reps and intervals (no one seems to have suggested regular interval sessions at 3k/5k race pace), you will never do it.
I cannot imagine a 17 year old has peaked - I have never really heard of that happening to a 17 year old boy. The annals of running are filled, however, with tales of teenage boys who burned themselves out by overtraining as young men.
Nailed it
This thread is ridiculous. "All you need is some easy mileage. You shouldn't do anything extra. Except for some workouts, pickups, strides, tempos, long runs..."
The only thing you disagree with is the number. I'm not sure what is so scary about three digits, but 100mpw is not some magic sorcery that will curse a runner to scoliosis.
What if this kid started a thread saying "I want to build up to 1 hour easy in the morning and 30 minutes easy in the afternoon. Then including workouts of 45' up-tempo/progression with WU and CD, a 40' fartlek. with WU and CD and build to a 16 mile long run" everyone would be saying "Go for it!" and "Great plan!"
Well that's 95-100 miles right there. But because he led off with that number, *1-0-0*, everyone is tweaking out.
Anyone want to be the one to go back in time and tell Ritz not to run 4 workouts a week in HS? Anyone want to be the one to fly to Kenya and tell the youth groups to stop and walk home halfway through each run?
OP, choose to be great. Or you can choose to be average and do what everyone else is doing, 70 miles per week of tip-toeing around thoughts of injury and burnout.
High mileage is the result of a long term progression. This is a high school aged kid we are talking about. He is still developing, not only as a runner, but as a human being. He is racing shorter events, maxing out at 5k, but more often running 1600m to 3200m. He has also been running long enough to demonstrate that he is not next Rupp or Ritz (that is not a knock - those are generational talents).
Sure, we hear about how some of the greats were running 100 mpw in high school, but what you don't hear about is all of those who burned out or injured themselves trying to emulate those greats.
Telling a decently-but-not-stellarly talented 17 year old whose body is still developing that they should increase their training volume by about 50% over one year in the hopes that they catch lightning and a bottle and prove to be a generational talent is not only irresponsible, it is akin to telling some above-average kid that they should forego college and move to Paris to try to get into a modeling career or move to Hollywood and get into acting.
Thanks man, means a lit
If you run those distances for an extended period of time you will end the season injured and exhausted.
I would recommend improving your speed not your cardiovascular capacity.
my 2 cents
If you're looking to jump up so high in mileage you won't have much room to grow further on. Even Cam Levins, who used to run 140+ mpw in senior year, now only runs something like 120 just with more quality and some added cross training. Typically, you can milk out mileage gains for a certain level for 8-12 months. You'll see the most improvement in the first month or so, but then consistency will create natural improvement as your workouts become longer and harder. The idea to make your body capable to handle the workout load with the mileage, regardless of the workout difficulty. Stick to 70 for now, maybe bump it up to 75 at the most, no point in going above. Introduce a core routine at least 3 times a week, with at least one of those sessions including a weights based session. Injury prevention is crucial, so romanian deadlifts, single leg squats, single leg step ups, and jumping lunges are all good exercises. They'll boost strength and explosiveness and they'll make a big difference. I run collegiately now. I ran around the same times as you by my senior year of high school (17:50, 9:59, 4:39). Just got consistent with mileage at 60 miles per week and now I run 32:13 for 10K, 25:37 for 8K, 15:13 for 5K, 8:42 3K, 4:31 mile. I also do core 4 times a week, with 2 weightlifting sessions and a pool session.
i have coached dozens of kids that broke 17 and never ran more then 40 a week.
If you are running north of 60 and are still that slow. why would you add more?
Assuming you ran 70mpw training for your 5K . Your total miles is plenty. IMO 70mpw is all you need to run your best 5K unless you are a professional. I would argu it is too much and not enough. The negatives far outweigh the positives when you go beyond 70mpw for 5K training (that is assuming you are a HS athlete) Maybe you are not running the right workouts opposed to volume?
GulanRapp wrote:
17:14
10:41
4:54
Track times are from last year. Did a max of 70 mpw this summer. Usually stuck to 60 mpw with 1 day off after 7 days. Few workouts, usually just did a progression and a long run and called those my workouts for the week. What do you think I could run next year (senior year) if I started running 100mpw in like January all the way up to August?
Thanks dudes,
GulanRapp
For the amount of mileage you are doing those times are useless. You are clearly massively neglecting other parts of training in pursuit of high miles. Drop down to 50 and start doing some tempos, aerobic and anaerobic capacity workouts several times a week. They are far more important to middle distance running than mileage
SoCal Pete wrote:
Running 100 mpw and having it work for you is the result of long-term incremental training increases and innate physiological ability. It's not a prescription medication for improved performance. Really good runners who train 100 mpw do so because they have the strength to benefit from that training. Runners who aren't ready for that type of volume (and most never will be) simply break down or overwhelm their body's adaptive ability (in other words, you'll get injured, sick, or slower). Be smart. Do a variety of workouts, target incremental increases in training volume and intensity, and have patience--you're young, with years left to train more and run faster. Good luck!
This is a good post. I should clarify that my last post is just a reaction against the "You'll just get hurt" mentality.
I don't know if 100mpw will work for OP. Train to run fast, whatever that is.
(But don't think that 100mpw will automatically lead to problems.)
yes, that's basically what I did.
Not sure if someone already said this or not in this thread. There's so many of these that I get bored with reading the same replies (which include this one).
Don't just hit 100 just to hit 100 miles. More miles is not necessarily the answer. Have you ever heard someone tell you "not to get obsessed with the number"? Well running is a balance, you'll need to have your hard days and your easy days. Never too high or too low. Try to keep yourself in check a little on hard days and make sure you aren't running too slow on easy days. Try and slowly build your miles and take a break when you think you're not recovering as well as a couple weeks before. Do this until you can safely run the higher mileage you want.
Remember that it's not the training necessarily, it's the consistency. If you're used to taking a couple days off a week or a random Sunday here and there, stop. You need to run every day and only skip when you're legs NEED it.
Think of it this way, if XC is three months long and you take off every weekend of the season, you miss 24 days of training. You almost miss an entire month of training because you were too lazy to go out and run. Hold yourself accountable and try not to only train hard when it's convenient. The best runners have a boring lifestlye: they eat right, sleep enough, they SACRIFICE. Other people might call it boring, but those runners will tell you that it's worth it.