Why is Sebastian Coe's technique considered the best?

Training Advice/Discussion 1500

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6 years ago 01/30/2018 3:55am EST

re: Coevett

Coevett wrote:
Plastered wrote:
Coevett is not going to like that kind of talk. ?
LOL! Actually it's quite a fair statement (Subway's). I'm not an expert on doping but from what I've read about suspected pre-EPO blood dopers, Coe just doesn't seem to fit the pattern at all. So that leaves steroids, and there's a lot of reasons to doubt that somebody as slight as him was so skilled at taking steroids (and avoiding detection) back then that he could have benefitted so massively without it leaving any visible effect on his frame. And remember, he was a massively talented 800m runner who then became an 800/1500m middle-distance all-time great, and that was supposedly down to steroids??

Pretty fair, contrary to Venti's medical opinion, blood dopers usually go from mid pack to extraordinary in one race. One would think Coe would be better over 3-10k if he was blood doping (though not unplausible) considering he was very slight. So really roids is the only option, but again if he was on them when would he have started?

6 years ago 01/30/2018 6:46am EST

re: 100m

100m wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Name one other athlete who got such an illness from blood doping.
By the way blood is generally sterile and has no microbial agents
Ouch...false. But thanks for the attempted lesson. I supposed you should have taught at my Medical School!
One may attempt to argue the definition of microbe or micro-organism, as it does not, in the strictest sense, include viruses, which are non-living obligate intracellular pathogens. Even so, protists, fungi, and bacteria were commonly transmitted through transfusion in the 1970s and 1980s due to less sophisticated blood processing methods than we have today. Even today, a small but non-zero percentage of individuals who receive transfusions suffer from bacteremia (especially with platelet transfusions) as a result.
If we are to include viruses in the discussion of transfusion-related infections, then the 1980s were truly infamous for the spread of HIV, HCV, HBV, CMV, and a numerous host of other agents through transfusion (in the clinical setting, quite often to hemophiliac patients, many of whom are living with HIV today as a result).

Where is your example of someone who got toxoplasmosis?

None of those people got infections from doping with their own blood

6 years ago 02/01/2018 2:29am EST

re: Coevett

El Guerrouj v Kiprop

1500m - 3:26.00 v 3:26.69

Mile - 3:43.13 v 3:48.50

Over 5 seconds difference in the mile. Why is that?!

6 years ago 02/01/2018 4:40am EST

re: Stenmark

Stenmark wrote:
El Guerrouj v Kiprop
1500m - 3:26.00 v 3:26.69
Mile - 3:43.13 v 3:48.50
Over 5 seconds difference in the mile. Why is that?!

Very few mile races in Europe anymore.

6 years ago 02/02/2018 5:17am EST

re: Subway Surfers Addiction

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Stenmark wrote:
El Guerrouj v Kiprop
1500m - 3:26.00 v 3:26.69
Mile - 3:43.13 v 3:48.50
Over 5 seconds difference in the mile. Why is that?!
Very few mile races in Europe anymore.

Are there any major mile races left?

6 years ago 02/02/2018 3:25pm EST

re: Max Denbigh

Just observe Coe's running form in the home straight in his 1500m post LA Zurich run, and compare it to the three runners behind him (Scoot, Deleaze and Abascal - three great runners). Different class alltogether. If Coe had been on steroids and blood doping he'd have been running sub 3:25. Also notice how he's out of breath at the end and contrast with El G etc at the end of a 3:26 and the like. El Epo looked sometimes like the lactic acid was out of his legs, in the manner of a 400m sprinter with nothing left, but never out of breath.

https://youtu.be/MOVrht9WIvE?t=5m

6 years ago 02/02/2018 3:38pm EST

re: Active Inspired

Active Inspired wrote:
Opinions vary wrote:
I never thought Coe looked that effortless nor particularly smooth and floating.
I think his slighter build kind of disguised the fact that he was powering along.
Some forward lean is actually ideal.
Yes a minimal forward lean, but not as much as Ovett's.
According to this:
Torso The position of your torso while running is affected by the position of your head and shoulders. With your head up and looking ahead and your shoulders low and loose, your torso and back naturally straighten to allow you to run in an efficient, upright position that promotes optimal lung capacity and stride length. Many track coaches describe this ideal torso position as "running tall" and it means you need to stretch yourself up to your full height with your back comfortably straight. If you start to slouch during a run take a deep breath and feel yourself naturally straighten. As you exhale simply maintain that upright position.
http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/perfect-running-form
Or this:
The body is held upright with the back relaxed but straight with minimal forward lean
https://www.brianmac.co.uk/middist/

i wonder if that's why Tadesse isn't as good at the marathon?! he's a big leaner.

watch the London 2012 10,000m final where he's in the lead

6 years ago 02/02/2018 4:17pm EST

re: Stenmark

Stenmark wrote:
El Guerrouj v Kiprop
1500m - 3:26.00 v 3:26.69
Mile - 3:43.13 v 3:48.50
Over 5 seconds difference in the mile. Why is that?!

ElG had a real race on his hands setting the WR.

6 years ago 02/02/2018 6:45pm EST

re: Coevett

Coevett wrote:
Just observe Coe's running form in the home straight in his 1500m post LA Zurich run, and compare it to the three runners behind him (Scoot, Deleaze and Abascal - three great runners). Different class alltogether. If Coe had been on steroids and blood doping he'd have been running sub 3:25. Also notice how he's out of breath at the end and contrast with El G etc at the end of a 3:26 and the like. El Epo looked sometimes like the lactic acid was out of his legs, in the manner of a 400m sprinter with nothing left, but never out of breath.
https://youtu.be/MOVrht9WIvE?t=5m

Good point.

Look at the mile WR, hardly a breath of struggle (2nd part of the video).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mohOrPvtMfg

6 years ago 02/10/2018 1:24am EST

re: mean and lean and

6 years ago 02/10/2018 3:55am EST

re: Mamede

6 years ago 02/10/2018 4:41am EST

re: Kuts

Kuts wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Just observe Coe's running form in the home straight in his 1500m post LA Zurich run, and compare it to the three runners behind him (Scoot, Deleaze and Abascal - three great runners). Different class alltogether. If Coe had been on steroids and blood doping he'd have been running sub 3:25. Also notice how he's out of breath at the end and contrast with El G etc at the end of a 3:26 and the like. El Epo looked sometimes like the lactic acid was out of his legs, in the manner of a 400m sprinter with nothing left, but never out of breath.
https://youtu.be/MOVrht9WIvE?t=5m
Good point.
Look at the mile WR, hardly a breath of struggle (2nd part of the video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mohOrPvtMfg

And couldn't break 1:47 for the 800m. When you look at El G, you can belive that for a high responder EPO could make 6 seconds difference over a mile. He might not have broken 3:50 without his EPO, even if he was still allowed the HGH and all the other stuff.

Ngeny may have been the only true African great of the 90's, but sadly was wiped out by the car accident. Ngeny showed glimpses of what a natuarl great like Ovett or Coe would have looked like supercharged on EPO. Probably could have ran under 3:40 for the mile and 3:23 for the 1500.

6 years ago 02/10/2018 8:36am EST

re: Coevett

Coevett wrote:
Kuts wrote:
Good point.
Look at the mile WR, hardly a breath of struggle (2nd part of the video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mohOrPvtMfg
And couldn't break 1:47 for the 800m. When you look at El G, you can belive that for a high responder EPO could make 6 seconds difference over a mile. He might not have broken 3:50 without his EPO, even if he was still allowed the HGH and all the other stuff.
Ngeny may have been the only true African great of the 90's, but sadly was wiped out by the car accident. Ngeny showed glimpses of what a natuarl great like Ovett or Coe would have looked like supercharged on EPO. Probably could have ran under 3:40 for the mile and 3:23 for the 1500.

I wouldn’t presume Ngeny to be any more ‘naturally’ talented than ELG. His career trajectory was even more unusual than ELG’s.

Ngeny was part of Kim McDonald’s early group, and he worked closely with Hogen, an East German who trained alongside Beyer and Straub under Diesser in the 80’s.

Also, always found it amazing that this serious car accident which ‘destroyed his abilities’ still enabled him to run 3:32 afterwards!

Being pulled from the Kenyan World Champs team in 2001 at the 11th hour without any reason given, was also a strange occurrence me think!

6 years ago 02/10/2018 10:24am EST

re: Deanouk

You guys are naive.

You picked one race that Coe was out of breath, when there are 15 on YouTube when he's hardly breathing after the line, same with Ovett, Cram, and Cacho.

6 years ago 02/10/2018 2:21pm EST

re: lkjlk

lkjlk wrote:
You guys are naive.
You picked one race that Coe was out of breath, when there are 15 on YouTube when he's hardly breathing after the line, same with Ovett, Cram, and Cacho.

Yawn!

Another important factor from that clip, look at the size of Coes legs! Massive power houses, crushing his inferior opponents into dust.

6 years ago 02/10/2018 2:35pm EST

re: Deanouk

Deanouk wrote:
[

I wouldn’t presume Ngeny to be any more ‘naturally’ talented than ELG. His career trajectory was even more unusual than ELG’s.

Ngeny was part of Kim McDonald’s early group, and he worked closely with Hogen, an East German who trained alongside Beyer and Straub under Diesser in the 80’s.

Also, always found it amazing that this serious car accident which ‘destroyed his abilities’ still enabled him to run 3:32 afterwards!

Being pulled from the Kenyan World Champs team in 2001 at the 11th hour without any reason given, was also a strange occurrence me think![/quote]

Kim McDonald's group were doing unreal times.

East German trainers/doctors fled around the world after the wall came down, looking for other athletes to pump full of drugs. So this is highly suspicious.

You also don't suddenly go backwards at 22 in endurance events. Given the amount of money he could make being Olympic champion, 1k WR holder and a 3:43 miler, unless you've come into special treatment from testers.

I bet he was hardly tested OOC prior to the 2000 Olympics if at all.

6 years ago 02/12/2018 2:59am EST

re: Subway Surfers Addiction

At Deano and Subway - thanks for the info. Yes, you're right about Ngeny. We really don't have much idea how talented any of the EPO stars are. Shame that it if it wasn't for him, I think I'm right in saying Coe would still have the 1000m WR?

I'll also remember Subway's phrase 'the dirty triangle' for future use (read it in the now deleted for some reason Morcelli thread).

6 years ago 02/12/2018 4:44am EST

re: Coevett

Coevett wrote:
At Deano and Subway - thanks for the info. Yes, you're right about Ngeny. We really don't have much idea how talented any of the EPO stars are. Shame that it if it wasn't for him, I think I'm right in saying Coe would still have the 1000m WR?
I'll also remember Subway's phrase 'the dirty triangle' for future use (read it in the now deleted for some reason Morcelli thread).

Coe cheat on his wife. If he could cheat on his wife, why wouldn't he cheat at his profession?

6 years ago 02/13/2018 4:37am EST

re: sky

sky wrote:
Mamede wrote:
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f3/25/7a/f3257a9d550d5d6e576422bea86b4ed7.jpg
Carlos Lopes?

I like Carlos Lopes' running form.

Strong runner.

6 years ago 02/15/2018 1:43am EST

re: greatlogic

greatlogic wrote:
Coevett wrote:
At Deano and Subway - thanks for the info. Yes, you're right about Ngeny. We really don't have much idea how talented any of the EPO stars are. Shame that it if it wasn't for him, I think I'm right in saying Coe would still have the 1000m WR?
I'll also remember Subway's phrase 'the dirty triangle' for future use (read it in the now deleted for some reason Morcelli thread).
Coe cheat on his wife. If he could cheat on his wife, why wouldn't he cheat at his profession?

And he doesn't read his IAAF emails... hmm...

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