Why is Sebastian Coe's technique considered the best?

How about Rudisha's form?

Deano, you don't have to defend his honor on every possible internet site.

It's not healthy.

Hi how are you Deano, there are people who like strawberry milkshakes whilst others prefer chocolate shakes. You are obviously a Coe-man, I always preferred Ovett probably because I read his autobiography first. But that is fine. I thought Coe to be stiff but powerful in his action for a little guy, I always thought Ovett looked smoother but he may have starter to lose this by 1983 (probably his 1982 problems).

This from Ovett : An Autobiography, (page 126)

"I had forty-two consecutive victories in 1500-metres and mile races and I did not want to lose, and attitude which lead me to making a mistake in the first round. I found myself racing Jurgen Straub, the strong East German, and was forced to record 3 minutes 36.8 seconds in finishing first.far faster and harder than I had hoped......The semi-final, 3 minutes 43.1 seconds, was less demanding but I felt tired and realized that Straub had deliberately stretched me in the heat into a tactical error...."

Later (page 129), "I do not believe that Seb would have won without Straub in the field......The one feeling I have no doubt about is that had Straub not been in the race I would have beaten Seb...."

Is there a high level runner who runs with a straight torso similar to Coe?

Everyone seems to have some forward lean.

Max Denbigh wrote:

May someone elaborate on why Coe's running technique considered by many (not all) to be the best/smoothest?

How does it compare/differ to Ovett, El Guerrouj or Morceli?

This is really difficult to answer as it is not clear what "the best" means. Objectively it would mean that that technique was the most efficient in that that movement would be consuming the least oxygen per unit body mass at a given speed or producing the most power/speed per unit body mass. I don't think that biomecanics as a science is able to comprehensively anwser this yet.

If "the best" means the most aesthetically pleasing then things become very subjective. I thought Ovett and Coe moved well and were good to watch but you have others such as Vasala (Lydiard has written that his technique and body alignment at speed as being among "the best"), Vaatainen, Viren, Tergat, Lopes to name a few all seemed to move "better" to me with less tension in their best races but that is just a subjective opinion. Without an objective biomecanics evaluation this topic is a bit like discussing who is your favorite rock band.

Max Denbigh wrote:

Is there a high level runner who runs with a straight torso similar to Coe?

Everyone seems to have some forward lean.

Coe did run with some forward lean, just not as much as most others.

Ryun also had a pretty straight torso like Coe's, with relaxed shoulders, but sometimes had a bit of rolling movement in the head

Coe is one of my favourite athletes all time, probably my idol. But I don't think his form is the best all time. He would tighten his shoulders sometimes (shrug them up) and is a bit too upright. His arms also didn't do quite enough swinging in the 800m. His stride was flawless however.

I think Rudisha looks more smooth as does El G. Kipketer also looks good from videos I've seen.

I am fine thanks. I usually agree with most of the things you have to say on here, but will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this one.

Of course Ovett would say that, and likewise would Coe say that had he experienced the pressures of the Olympics by going to Montreal in 76, "the results in Moscow might have been slightly different"

At the end of the day, it would have been a travesty had either of them not won an Olympic title in their careers, and I am glad Ovett did win a gold. I'm sure they would both have preferred to win the other one though.

Oh, and as an aside, although relevant to this thread, I have a book, "Complete Guide to Running", co written by Harry Wilson, Ovett's coach, in which there is a sequence of shots showing the ideal technique for middle distance running. Can you guess who they chose to be the subject of those photos? ;)

In his autobiography Ovett says that he has no excuses for losing the 1500 in Moscow. It was his number one distance and he should have won. However, he mentions several things. Firstly a worrying incident of over heating after the 800 which had the Russian medics worried for some time; they couldn't understand what was happening and didn't know what to do. also a sense of "mission accomplished" after winning gold in the 800, not helped by the lengthy gap between that race and the 1500 heats, something that helped Coe get his act together mentally. If the 1500 had immediately followed the 800 would Coe have recovered mentally in time? Ovett also mentions friction with his parents over his then girlfriend Rachel who was getting attention in the UK press.

Coe told Pat Butcher to thank Straub for his gold medal.

Coe told Butcher to ask Beyer and tell Straub, "Ask Olaf what he was on and tell Jurgen I owe my Olympic gold to him."

I do thank Straub for making the 1980 Moscow 1500m entertaining.

mark b wrote:

In his autobiography Ovett says that he has no excuses for losing the 1500 in Moscow. It was his number one distance and he should have won. However, he mentions several things. Firstly a worrying incident of over heating after the 800 which had the Russian medics worried for some time; they couldn't understand what was happening and didn't know what to do. also a sense of "mission accomplished" after winning gold in the 800, not helped by the lengthy gap between that race and the 1500 heats, something that helped Coe get his act together mentally. If the 1500 had immediately followed the 800 would Coe have recovered mentally in time? Ovett also mentions friction with his parents over his then girlfriend Rachel who was getting attention in the UK press.

This is correct, I didn't want to add this above (as I was typing manually with an android-fat finger tablet). It seems that his mother had a complete meltdown over Rachel and he complained about being hot. But to his credit Coe got himself organised mentally while Ovett was writing I.L.Y to the cameras. Still, gotta love Ovett.

Got to go with Ovett, I'd be surprised if was Coe.

800ftw. wrote:

Coe is one of my favourite athletes all time, probably my idol. But I don't think his form is the best all time. He would tighten his shoulders sometimes (shrug them up) and is a bit too upright. His arms also didn't do quite enough swinging in the 800m. His stride was flawless however.

I think Rudisha looks more smooth as does El G. Kipketer also looks good from videos I've seen.

El G is the smoothest over the 1500m/mile that I have seen, but it was more of a high speed run to him. He was actually vulnerable to a sprint.

Kipketer is the smoothest over 800m, though Rudisha is probably more of an alround athletic specimen (he could be good at a range of sports).

Coe must have been quite strong to run with the style he had. He did know how to burn up the home straight in 1980 & 1984 1500m finals.

No, it was Coe!

Certainly Straub's long run for home did no harm at all to Coe's chances in the 1500 final in Moscow, but I believe Coe would have won it whatever, that day.

Up to that point (800m) he was always ahead of Ovett, almost glued to the leader's shoulder (Straub) throughout. This wasn't the same Coe who seemed in a trance for the 800m. Coe's mental resolve at times of adversity was always strong.

Ovett wasn't going past someone who was running 12.1 in the last 100m. Ovett never closed any 1500 race that quick.

Steve should have got the silver and the fact he already had a gold probably meant he didn't dig deep enough in the last 40m to get passed Straub, but he was never going to get past Coe that day IMO.

Let it go deano. Let it go even if ventolin appears. Please.

This obsession has to be limiting your life.

Deanouk wrote:

No, it was Coe!

Certainly Straub's long run for home did no harm at all to Coe's chances in the 1500 final in Moscow, but I believe Coe would have won it whatever, that day.

Up to that point (800m) he was always ahead of Ovett, almost glued to the leader's shoulder (Straub) throughout. This wasn't the same Coe who seemed in a trance for the 800m. Coe's mental resolve at times of adversity was always strong.

Ovett wasn't going past someone who was running 12.1 in the last 100m. Ovett never closed any 1500 race that quick.

Steve should have got the silver and the fact he already had a gold probably meant he didn't dig deep enough in the last 40m to get passed Straub, but he was never going to get past Coe that day IMO.

But what if it was Ovett tracked Straub with Coe tracking both? Ovett gave himself too much to do for the pace it was run at. Considering he had better endurance and Coe that better pure speed tactically he shouldn't have come from behind. In theory his best tactics may have been to make it a true run race, but that's open to being taken late and he never did it. Maybe if Steve Scott was there Ovett wins........just maybe.

Ovett had poor tactics that day, for 3 years he'd done what he wanted and blown everyone out the water with 200m to go.

1983 was absolutely shambolic tactics too, far worse than this race

El G , Borza and Kipketer were all smoother. Try to follow the basic premise and not get sidetracked by your fanboyism.

I am just as much of a fan of Coe as you are but also realistic.

See I don't actually think El G is actually that smooth. But there's a few factors. Weight to Power Ratio, Endurance and then smoothness/efficiancy/lack of weaknesses in the strength chain.

I think El G is obviously the king of 1500 endurance but I'm not convinced he's the smoothest. I mean he has a straight back kick but it looks a little laboured to me. But then maybe that's because he isn't quite as light as the likes of Coe or any number of Kenyan lightweights.

AchillesInjury wrote:

El G , Borza and Kipketer were all smoother. Try to follow the basic premise and not get sidetracked by your fanboyism.

I am just as much of a fan of Coe as you are but also realistic.

See I don't actually think El G is actually that smooth. But there's a few factors. Weight to Power Ratio, Endurance and then smoothness/efficiancy/lack of weaknesses in the strength chain.

I think El G is obviously the king of 1500 endurance but I'm not convinced he's the smoothest. I mean he has a straight back kick but it looks a little laboured to me. But then maybe that's because he isn't quite as light as the likes of Coe or any number of Kenyan lightweights.

I do consider him the smoothest miler (but this is an evolutionary thing, more recent milers tend to look better), but I think he would have struggled in a race like in Rio. Mind you he would have probably paid someone to do the pacemaking.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

I do consider him the smoothest miler (but this is an evolutionary thing, more recent milers tend to look better), but I think he would have struggled in a race like in Rio. Mind you he would have probably paid someone to do the pacemaking.

Well Rio is the strangest and most pathetic championship 1500 I've ever seen but yes unless he goes at 600/700 to go or employs a pace maker he gets roasted. But with EL G he probably goes earlier.

I wonder if there's a backstory behind Rio or just a whole field without bottle.