Talent is not important as most people think it is

either or wrote:

Except for the very, very top runners, it's a hobby and talent is irrelevant. Below that level no one knows who you are and no one but you cares about your running. A few on this site can name some obscure college runners, but at the elite level only a handful of people per event get any notoriety. Do the best you can and enjoy it.

+100000000000

That quote maybe works in general, but not for the great advancements in human history or athletic achievements on the highest level. Elon Musk is a genius and more innovative and visionary than the hardest worker without the same talents. (think Steve Jobs, etc etc)''A dropout (who is a genius) will beat a genius through hard work."

Person Who Runs wrote:

I feel this quote from Naruto fits this thread well. ''A dropout will beat a genius through hard work.''

You don't even list what your PR is for the marathon so saying your goal is to break 2:20 means nothing without context. And what you run the first time running a mile your freshman year means very little in terms of how much talent you do or do not have. If you do in fact run sub 2:20 or even pretty close to 2:20 whether you want to believe it or not you do have talent. Not 2:05 talent but you have talent. A 2:30 marathoner has talent.

The fact that you're running 130 mpw and trying to break 2:20 exactly PROVES that talent IS important. Because you know how far away 2:20 is from 2:03?

Talent, bro.

trollism wrote:

Why are you aiming for 2:20 and 2:15 rather than 2:05?

Cause he realizes he doesn't have anywhere near the talent necessary to achieve a time like that?

And that it would leave this very stupid thread DEVASTATED?

trollism wrote:

Why are you aiming for 2:20 and 2:15 rather than 2:05?

Not talented enough.

noit really wrote: Elon Musk is a genius and more innovative and visionary than the hardest worker without the same talents. (think Steve Jobs, etc etc)

In the business world, psychopaths do wonderfully. Jobs was crazy. Not the fun kind. Maybe Musk's crazy is a little more domesticated, but, it's not normal and functional outside of a boardroom. Some end up homeless, others end up CEOs.

Running isn't the same. Well, maybe it is.. Salazar.

Everyone has a ceiling. It is usually higher than they believe it is. Someone more talented will have an even higher ceiling. Person A with a certain ceiling can train hard for years and continue to train consistently and do all the little things right from ages 15-30 and eventually get 90% of the way to his ultimate ceiling (the point past which you can no longer improve). Person B has a much higher ceiling, but spends less time training than Person A, and only makes it 80% of the way to his ceiling. When Person A and Person B race, Person B will win, despite fulfilling a smaller portion of his potential. But if Person B only makes it 65% of the way to his ceiling, then Person A will win. To beat Person B, Person A must either figure out how to get closer to his potential (quality training, nutrition, sleep, altitude), or he better hope that Person B is much further from his ceiling.

yeah to be fair you're right.

I know a kid with talent, minimal training (a couple months) claims he ran 4:50 around a track freshman year.. I doubt this, but he did run a 2;10 off little training and a 5 flat 1600.. This kid doesn't work hard AT ALL. So he says he's gonna do xc, so im like sweat, let's see what happens. What do you know? This year he hasn't broken 20 for the 5k..

I think as the distance gets further and the level gets higher this becomes more and more true to a point (about 16 for the 5k) and then elites are different.

Agreed. Everyone has a ceiling of capability that is almost guaranteed not to be achieved 100%. The greatest have the highest and have come closest to hitting their own individual ceilings.

All of us as runners have been beaten by people who train less but have higher ceilings than us, as well as beaten people who train harder but have lower ceilings.

Just the nature of the game.

JoJoCo wrote:

At the high school level, I agree.

At the college level, I mostly agree.

At the Olympic level, no one who is just a hard worker, with minimal or middle talent, ever wins anything and rarely even makes the team.

Ever heard of Ron Daws?

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

theohiostate wrote:

"Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard."

/thread

Some of the talent does work hard so hard work never wins.

the self-made poster wrote:

JoJoCo wrote:

At the high school level, I agree.

At the college level, I mostly agree.

At the Olympic level, no one who is just a hard worker, with minimal or middle talent, ever wins anything and rarely even makes the team.

Ever heard of Ron Daws?

Yeah, he had no talent and got lucky on a hot day.

ps that's why he said "rarely". Daws is probably the only exception.

half the field dropped out. wrote:

the self-made poster wrote:

Ever heard of Ron Daws?

Yeah, he had no talent and got lucky on a hot day.

Yeah, all of the training he did to prepare for the heat made him lucky.

Denying the importance of genetics is on the same level as denying evolution.

Unpopular truth wrote:

Denying the importance of genetics is on the same level as denying evolution.

Genetically gifted couch potatoes are just potatoes.

1. How fast were you at the end of freshman track or cross country season? Just because you probably ran 6:01 when you were out of shape doesn't mean you have no talent. I bet 2 weeks later you ran a 5:30-5:40 and by the end of the season you were low 5's. Your first timed race doesn't define you.

I would know this. My first 5k in freshman year cross country I ran a 24:53. That doesn't define me as my talent base because I ran 15 mpw for 3 weeks and ran a 21:47. I would say I started out with a 21:40, not a 26 minute time trial off 0 mpw or something.

You have way more talent than me and I wouldn't call myself untalented. You know who's untalented? My friend that put in a good amount of work for 4 years and didn't break 20. The person who runs 100 mpw and runs in the 18's and 19's. You're ignorant for thinking that you are untalented because you ran a 6:01 mile time trial at 14 when you had no training. How about you tell me your pr's for high school? Looking at vdot, to even think about breaking 2:20 you need to be sub 15.

This speech doesn't motivate me at all as a high schooler. What motivates me is myself and I don't need your fake story.

Yep, their was a shprt and skinny kid on my middle school team with no natural speed, he could run 64 in the 400, who ran a 4:40 mile and was the best, another tall and athletic kid ran 56 in the 400, but only 5:12 in the mile. Talent helps but it isn't anything without work.