Orange wrote:
Have you checked for lyme? Is that common in your area?
We are from the Midwest...it's possible?
Orange wrote:
Have you checked for lyme? Is that common in your area?
We are from the Midwest...it's possible?
High school wrote:
Runningisbadforyou wrote:Thanks again, guys.
Remember, these issues started BEFORE we pulled him from this one race.
Again, we only pulled him out of one race.
What did you tell him when you pulled him? It only takes 1 incident to break confidence. Not being critical of you, just honestly want to know how you handled this from a learning standpoint
Definitely not a confidence issue, but he definitely is frustrated.
We pulled him from an invitational that is 4 weeks before our state meet. It was relatively meaningless. He was fine for half a mile and out right at 16:15-16:30 pace (he's a 15:45 kid, ran 16:20 so far this year), then cratered over the next 1200. I've been coaching for a while so I feel like I could know the difference between someone who gave up mentally and somebody who is fighting and unable to run at his 5k pace. Like I said, we've gone over this with him before and told him that we think it could be him. Performance anxiety or something. Yeah, if he was running 15-30 seconds slower than where he should be I could chalk it up as mental, but this is a 16:20 kid running 18:20.
We explained to him that given his recovery issues that we thought it would be better to save his legs for the upcoming championship season instead of letting him death fade for another 1.5 miles. We definitely didn't baby him, but we told him we are trying to keep things in perspective.
gigfan wrote:
Have you tried forcing him to negative split his races. While 2:35 isn't on pace to break 16, it is near what you think is his current all out effort race pace, maybe have him start at 17:30 pace, and speed up a tad each 800. Picking off runners gets your confidence back.
We had him go out at 2:45 a couple meets ago and he didn't feel any different. Still struggled. Its almost like he feels great for a half mile or so then his body just quits on him.
Sorry for the quadruple post.
Update:
He's going in again to get blood work. I told him to ask about his iron and what the exact number is. He is also going to ask about celiac's, mono, hypothyroidism, B12, testosterone, and a couple other things just to sort of point to what to look for. His miles have only been dropped over the last week. From 55 to 45. Not too drastic, but he will be running a bit easier and might do only one workout this week. We have two weeks until regionals so let's hope this gets him somewhat right!
Thanks everyone for helping with responses. I am trying to stay positive. This last year has basically just setback after setback, with a few positive moments here and there. He's a tough kid. During track, he still managed to win his regional meet, and I can tell he's out there giving it his all in races, this is why I can't imagine that it's mental..he's quite the gamer, which makes this a lot harder on him.
andicamp wrote:
On the potential iron issues: find a doctor that has some experience with runners. Seriously.
Do not go to a doctor that thinks everything is ok if you don't have full blown anemia. That is absolutely false.
Also, "normal" or "everything's fine" is not an acceptable answer from the doctor about any blood test results. Get a paper copy of all the results and take it with you when you leave the office (or get them sent by email, but get the actual numbers). Keep the results. Start a file.
As someone who has celiac and has suffered through many years of iron issues, I can tell you there's a huge range of responses that you will get from doctors regarding acceptable ferritin levels. The real answer is not a number, it's how you feel. For reference, my running suffers when my ferritin gets much below 60 (the very first time I got tested it was 0.9), but I have friends who do pretty well in the 30s.
You want to feel like a million bucks? Get your ferritin up in the 120+ range. It's crazy how much difference it makes.
How did you get yours up so high? And 120+?
IV iron was the only way I could get up really high, which is great while you have it, but it doesn't address the original problem, so your iron goes up really high and then just starts dropping again. It becomes an iron rollercoaster, which is not too healthy in the long term.
I finally got my gut at least partially healed up, and now I'm absorbing more from food and supplements. With moderate training, I can hang around in the low 60s, but I'm not sure I would stay there with heavy marathon training.
For iron issues, should I have him just check ferritin levels? What sort of supplements should he take? Just over the counter iron?
Maybe he has lost some fitness from all the time off.
I understand you're trying to help, but you're his coach, not his doctor.
You should help him find a good doctor.
andicamp wrote:
I understand you're trying to help, but you're his coach, not his doctor.
You should help him find a good doctor.
You're absolutely right, which is why he goes to the doctor.
Another update. He got some test results back. Doctors say his PTK levels are very high. Anybody have any experience with this? I know it sounds like a result of overtraining if it's the case. Any chance these levels being high have similar side effects to that of a ferratin deficiency?
He has scheduled a biopsy to look at things further.
You mean PTH?
dsrunner wrote:
You mean PTH?
protein tyrosine kinase
Runningisbadforyou wrote:
For iron issues, should I have him just check ferritin levels? What sort of supplements should he take? Just over the counter iron?
Ferrous fumarate 210mg once daily for a six weeks if ferritin is low.
I used to have high creatine kinase/creatine phosphokinase, but don't know what PTK is.
Keep looking, there is no reason why a runner should suddenly dip unless they're overtraining. This doesn't sound like the case so I'd keep looking for medical problems. Let us know when you get the ferritin levels.
have you considered that you are posting medical information of a kid, student-athlete, for which you have responsibility as a coach? Did the kid or his family really share with you the medical info from their physician with the idea that you could then post to the internet to seek a solution?
let doctors be doctors, let coaches be coaches, and let kids be kids
stay off the internet bro
seen wrote:
have you considered that you are posting medical information of a kid, student-athlete, for which you have responsibility as a coach? Did the kid or his family really share with you the medical info from their physician with the idea that you could then post to the internet to seek a solution?
let doctors be doctors, let coaches be coaches, and let kids be kids
stay off the internet bro
Actually they did. Thank you for your insight!
Send him home until he's ready to race again.
Let his family take care of his health issues. If he even has any.
You are way over thinking this. Too much micromanagement.
slowpokie wrote:You are way over thinking this. Too much micromanagement.
Strongly disagree. There may be a medical issue that is serious to the health of this kid beyond running.
on the other hand wrote:
slowpokie wrote:You are way over thinking this. Too much micromanagement.Strongly disagree. There may be a medical issue that is serious to the health of this kid beyond running.
Possibly but let his doctor figure out what's going on rather then a bunch of strangers. You are going to get a wide variety of answers based on what people have had that may not even be pertinent to what's going on with him.
The coach is clearly concerned about his athlete, and he posted information anonymously and respectfully to brainstorm ideas. This is a running forum with people of all backgrounds. Some opinions or ideas may be helpful. Of course, the kid and his family will act in consultation with his physician.