That's great, but generating lactate doesn't make you acidic. It actually neutralizes acidity.
That's great, but generating lactate doesn't make you acidic. It actually neutralizes acidity.
I've read Seb Coe's was 82!
talentspot wrote:
or maybe the method to measure vo2max was wrong.
I think the problem is the pool of runners who have done Vo2max tests is fairly low.
Unless you're a random untrained participant in a study, a college athlete, or an elite runner the chances of you getting the opportunity to take not one but two Vo2max tests is nil. Take 100 15:00-16:00 5k guys and the Vo2max numbers would be all over the place.
Alan
test2 wrote:
measuring progress wrote:Sure. Training should be individual.
Of course you're probably overlooking that Shorter probably had a much higher number, he just didn't attack the test like Pre did.
The number would be most accurate if taken from a race, not a treadmill test that not everyone can get up for.
Pre raged against the machine, Shorter got frustrated and stepped off. Not a very good comparison.
If you don't like the Shorter/Pre example, that's fine but my question stands unanswered. Once you know a runners VO2max, how exactly do you customize training? If a guy has a relatively low VO2max, do you pile on the VO2max intervals and shy away from faster reps which are thought to mainly target efficiency? Do any coaches actually think this way?
From just looking at numbers and runners, I'd guess that low max VO2 people either tend to be big-mileage runners, or are better off doing big mileage.
Here's a one man study:
I started running as a HS freshman. Ran 40mi my very first week of running. Ran 70+ during the summer. Would run 70-80 every off season, then 50-60 in season. Also ran a lot of quality. Lookup PAAVO on these boards, 2-3 days of intervals plus a race each week.
My very first 5k XC race was 20:05, finished 18:13 my frosh year, then 17:35, 16:16, 15:53, in subsequent years.
Track was 4:52 first ever 1600m race, then 4:37 end of season then 4:28/10:09, 4:32/9:38, 4:27/9:33 in subsequent years.
Ran college XC but not track, but sporadic training-wise. Then started training for marathons, 100-120 upwards of 140 mpw ran my 15:43 road 5k PR and 2:32 marathon PR in the same year. The two VO2max tests were also in that same time period. It was also two diff machines.
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
Here's a one man study:
I started running as a HS freshman. Ran 40mi my very first week of running. Ran 70+ during the summer. Would run 70-80 every off season, then 50-60 in season. Also ran a lot of quality. Lookup PAAVO on these boards, 2-3 days of intervals plus a race each week.
My very first 5k XC race was 20:05, finished 18:13 my frosh year, then 17:35, 16:16, 15:53, in subsequent years.
Track was 4:52 first ever 1600m race, then 4:37 end of season then 4:28/10:09, 4:32/9:38, 4:27/9:33 in subsequent years.
Ran college XC but not track, but sporadic training-wise. Then started training for marathons, 100-120 upwards of 140 mpw ran my 15:43 road 5k PR and 2:32 marathon PR in the same year. The two VO2max tests were also in that same time period. It was also two diff machines.
Alan
So it looks like you doing too much volume.
Runningart2004 wrote:
talentspot wrote:or maybe the method to measure vo2max was wrong.
I think the problem is the pool of runners who have done Vo2max tests is fairly low.
Unless you're a random untrained participant in a study, a college athlete, or an elite runner the chances of you getting the opportunity to take not one but two Vo2max tests is nil. Take 100 15:00-16:00 5k guys and the Vo2max numbers would be all over the place.
Alan
They would still be well above average, as might be expected.
F U C K
YOU
M A L M O
smile wrote:
:
1) 1500m (3:29.7-3:34.0)
2) 5000m (13:00-13:16)
3) 10,000m (26:57-27:30)
Now fly in exercise physiologists from around the world and geek-out: treadmills, oxygen ventilators, calipers, rectal probes! Collect the data, crunch the numbers and what do you get? Sets of highly-trained runners with similar PRs (2% differentials) with VO2 max values that vary wildly: 10 to 15 percent (sometimes more)! Runners with slower PRs having higher VO2 max. How is that predictive of performance?
As a broad generalization, I'll agree that trained runners will have higher VO2 max than the sedentary. That is called the common sense doctrine. Within sampling sets of like-performing athletes, there is no direct correlation.
92.5 Greg LeMond, professional cyclist
92.0 Matt Carpenter, Pikes Peak marathon course record holder
91.0 Harri Kirvesniem, Finnish cross country skier
90.0 Bjn Dlie, Norwegian cross country skier
88.0 Miguel Indurain, professional cyclist
87.4 Marius Bakken, Norwegian 5k record holder
85.0 Dave Bedford, 10k world record
85.0 John Ngugi World XC Champion
84.4 Steve Prefontaine,US runner
84.3 "Physiologist in training," 15:12/30:55 runner
84.0 Lance Armstrong, professional cyclist
82.7 Gary Tuttle, US runner
82.0 Kip Keino, Olympic 1500 champion
81.1 Craig Virgin, twice World cross country champ
81.0 Jim Ryun, US miler WR holder
80.1 Steve Scott, US miler 3:47
79.4 "Runningart2004," 15:43 5k runner
78.6 Joan Benoit, 1984 Olympic Marathon Champion
78.5 Bill Rodgers, 2:09:27 marathoner
77.4 Don Kardong, 2:11:15 marathoner
77.0 Sebastian Coe. WR mile, 1500
76.6 John Landy, WR miler
76.0 Alberto Salazar, 2:08:51 marathoner
74.3 Amby Burfoot, US marathoner
74.4 Johnny Halberstadt, 2:11:44 marathoner
74.2 Kenny Moore, US marathoner 2:11:36
73.5 Grete Waitz, Norwegian Marathon runner
73.3 Bruce Fordyce ultramarathoner
73.0 Jeff Galloway, US snake oil salesman
73.0 Buddy Edelen, 2:14:28 world record marathoner (1963)
72.8 Jarmila Krotochvilova,Czech Olympian 400M/800M winner
72.3 Peter Snell, Olympic champion
72.0 Zithulele Sinqe, 2:08:05 marathoner
71.3 Frank Shorter, US Olympic Marathon winner
71.2 Ingrid Kristiansen, ex-Marathon World Record Holder
71.0 Paula Ivan, Russian Olympic 1500M Record Holder
70.3 Willie Mtolo, 2:08:15 marathoner
69.7 Derek Clayton, Australian ex-Marathon World Record holder 2:08:35
67.2 Rosa Mota, Marathon runner
62.0 Cam Levins, Canadian badass
.
I've got Jim Ryun at 80.7, and John Walker at 82. I also thought Rod Dixon's was around 78 but I cannot verify this. I thought Prefontaine's was 83.7?
alberto vo2 wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:Here's a one man study:
I started running as a HS freshman. Ran 40mi my very first week of running. Ran 70+ during the summer. Would run 70-80 every off season, then 50-60 in season. Also ran a lot of quality. Lookup PAAVO on these boards, 2-3 days of intervals plus a race each week.
My very first 5k XC race was 20:05, finished 18:13 my frosh year, then 17:35, 16:16, 15:53, in subsequent years.
Track was 4:52 first ever 1600m race, then 4:37 end of season then 4:28/10:09, 4:32/9:38, 4:27/9:33 in subsequent years.
Ran college XC but not track, but sporadic training-wise. Then started training for marathons, 100-120 upwards of 140 mpw ran my 15:43 road 5k PR and 2:32 marathon PR in the same year. The two VO2max tests were also in that same time period. It was also two diff machines.
Alan
So it looks like you doing too much volume.
You realize this was between 1992 to 2006? I ran volume, but it wasn't just slugging miles. I worked as hard as I could given my lack of talent or runner's build.
Alan
talentspot wrote:
can anyone provide me normal distribution data of trained vo2max of people?
can many people train to have that value?
No, but I think 70-90 @ 10% bodyfat would be a normal distribution.
talent is everywhere wrote:
talentspot wrote:can anyone provide me normal distribution data of trained vo2max of people?
can many people train to have that value?
No, but I think 70-90 @ 10% bodyfat would be a normal distribution.
I forgot to answer the second and most important question there.
Yes most distance runners could achieve that easily. That doesn't make you fast though. It economy that makes you fast.