Yes, Smoove, it makes sense. I think I am an odd bird when it comes to training...or perhaps I am just very threshold/slow-twitch inclined. I hate slow runs (very boring), and I hate VO2max work. Everything else is fine. When in peak shape, though, I do notice a better tolerance for VO2max intervals.
Interesting Stuff wrote:
I actually agree with Smoove about tempo runs. There's just something about going "comfortably hard" to me that isn't fun. I prefer to go hard, very hard, race, easy, very easy, but not comfortably hard. There's something about that "kind of hard but not quite hard" that irks me and makes me want to go do something else instead. Saying that.... I'm more of a fast twitch guy who is dramatically worse as we move up past 5k.
At the risk of sounding immodest, I might be the king of "comfortably hard."
You don't have to run an exact pace to the second to get the benefit of training that adaptation. It's a range, and dependent on a bunch of things. So yeah take it back a little. Maybe run some longer tempos slower, and break up the faster tempos a little. Maybe do some cruise miles with short rest. There are many ways to get the adaptations you want.
And don't hold on to your Daniels calculator so hard, it's not the absolute truth.
Understood and agreed on virtually all points. I essentially said the same thing in response to my original response to the OP.
On the other hand, folks should also realize that some people's subjective response to a stimulus may be different than that of others, and that their distaste for, or perception of the effort associated with, a particular workout may be a bit more pronounced.
yeah I don't do them.
short intervals, long intervals, hills, or long and easy. polarized training ftw.
Smoove wrote:
kimani wrote:Or you can break them up even more:
10-20 x 400 @ 10k pace w/jog 100m recovery (less than 60s, should be closer to 40s). The key, as in a normal tempo run, is not to go too fast in the 400s--you want to build up some lactic acid and flush it out in the jog recovery.
You can also do some fast 200s afterward.
I think this would be fun to do, but I question the benefit.
As a fundamental issue, I view the purpose of the workout to be to adapt to the accumulation of lactic acid (those with a certain perspective can substitute in the appropriate deleterious by product) and to adapt to clearing it.
With such short bouts of work (80 to 90 seconds), you really don't have enough time to build up lactic acid during any interval and by clearing it with jogging and such a long recovery (relative to the duration of the interval).
Understandable, but it was good enough for a 10k WR in 1984.
As I understand it, being that it's a faster pace than the standard LT run, you accumulate lactic acid quicker (after all, a 45s 400 causes tons of lactic acid) and the ≈45s jog recovery isn't close to full rest, so every rep you're getting a little more lactic build-up and the 100m jog is really what becomes more difficult. It's like a 5k-8k 2:1 fartlek...
The key seems to be knowing how one's body reacts. If the OP just doesn't like tempos, he/she might just need to suck it up in order to improve. Or OP might need to break up the tempo, do cruise intervals, do Igloi-type high-rep low-rest workouts, or eliminate tempos altogether.
Gilfoyle wrote:
You don't have to run an exact pace to the second to get the benefit of training that adaptation. It's a range, and dependent on a bunch of things. So yeah take it back a little. Maybe run some longer tempos slower, and break up the faster tempos a little. Maybe do some cruise miles with short rest. There are many ways to get the adaptations you want.
And don't hold on to your Daniels calculator so hard, it's not the absolute truth.
Right. By going a little slower, you get a better feel for the pace. Running is a skill we are trying to improve. Running tempos too hard is the same as racing, where we aren't learning, we are repeating what we have learned.
lol thanks, but I do them as a team so i have to do the workout everyones doing, i dont hate them that much but i usually feel terrible durring them, a sort of hard effort for that long when its not a race just killlllls me, but they get easier with higher mileage ive found, like 3 miles at a 6 min pace really isnt that hard
I will be honest, I didn't notice that it was at 10k pace instead of tempo pace.
Still, I am still dubious; so the only thing to do is to give it a try! Once I am back from this injury, I will give this workout a try and see what it feels like.
Like I said, it sounds like a fun workout in any event.