Gladwell wrote:
a two-per-cent advantage in the eight hundred metres is the difference between two minutes and 1:55.2
Those of who who think this beat poet is me, please note his inability to perform simple arithmetic
then search up my non-calculus solution to the crocodile problem
This article -
https://thesportspectacle.com/2016/08/16/capturing-semenya/
- is by far the best I have read about Semenya recently. Takedown of the garbage put forward by Gladwell and Thompson included.
"The two non-experts express their agreement with what “people are saying†and proceed to dress up their sexism with technical-sounding bullshit about testosterone, hyperandrogenism and gender difference. They discourse about these issues as if it were self-evident that all women athletes should have testosterone “in line with her competitors†even though (for example) no such requirement is made of men.
Gladwell and Thompson stage this conversation without any meaningful discussion of the decision issued by the International Court for Arbitration in Sports, which supported Indian athlete Dutee Chand’s challenge to IAAF/IOC rules which would require women with high T-levels to take hormone suppressants or face a lifetime ban.
Unfettered by the weight of the science on this issue, uninterested in the rationale behind the decisions of the juridical bodies that determine what constitutes fairness in sports, Gladwell and Thompson borrow from the arbitrary nature of sports structures to explain why Semenya should not be allowed to compete. In an extraordinary bit of group masturbation, Gladwell and Thompson cite some more men to make Semenya’s exclusion appear as if it were necessary to maintain the structure of athletics."
The only reason Caster runs is to make money. That's it. Caster stays focused on making money while everyone else debates fairness, gender issues, etc.
It's all about money wrote:
The only reason Caster runs is to make money. That's it. Caster stays focused on making money while everyone else debates fairness, gender issues, etc.
Pretty much "F everyone else, it's all about me and getting what I can."
Caster is a gentle, kind and fair women.
72ozPorterhouse wrote:
Maclolm Gladwell is a distance running fan and has written an extremely interesting piece about the Caster Semenya issue. Definitely worth the read, his comments seem to be the sentiment of most any logical person.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/caster-semenya-and-the-logic-of-olympic-competition
I'd love to see Gladwell and Katie Matlack sit down and have a discussion/debate about the issue.
She alluded to Rojo's invite for the Letsrun Podcast, but I don't trust Rojo's intellect and communication skills against a charged and aggressive female blogger. I think Gladwell is plenty capable of dealing with the issue effectively and rationally.
So if people differ from youbin your opinion hey are illogical? Lol
72ozPorterhouse wrote:
Maclolm Gladwell is a distance running fan and has written an extremely interesting piece about the Caster Semenya issue. Definitely worth the read, his comments seem to be the sentiment of most any logical person.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/caster-semenya-and-the-logic-of-olympic-competition
You do NOT know how much T is available and used despite thinking you know what her blood levels are.
TrackAndField wrote:
It's a good read. Semenya has been treated roughly and endured things that no woman should endure. I'm very sympathetic to her. But, people who argue she should be able to compete without T restriction reflexively call people who argue the other side as bigots, which I find appalling. It completely eliminates the ability to have rational debate on a complicated issue.
You do know thisbis more than her just identifying as a woman right? Do you know what the difference between transgendered and intersexed is?
Tritches Be Bippin wrote:
It's a crappy situation.
I feel bad for Caster, especially after reading these forums, but I also don't like being labeled a bigot or misogynist for wanting to give a fair shot to more women.
I think inhibitors need a place, or else just let anyone who "identifies" as a woman run in the women's events. I heard Juwanna Mann was looking to make a comeback in the WNBA.
When SJWs frame the situation as "barring her from competition", they are lying. The question is whether people with testes should be competing with people without testes, or with testes, testes being the source of performance-enhancing hormones. Anything else is obfuscation.
The problem with the argument about her times lowering when her T was reduced was you don't know how low that knocked her bioavailable testosterone. Say she was a 10 blood level, then had the equivalent of 5 bioavailable due to androgen insensitivity. When her level would be dropped to 4 her bioavailability could be 2 or less. You just don't know, so she should not be penalized.
I LOVE PERNILLE wrote:
"When Semenya’s testosterone was lowered to “normal†levels, she ran in the two-minute range for the eight hundred metres, which put her comfortably among the best in the world. Now that that restriction has been lifted, she is running six seconds faster. She has gone from being very good to being, potentially, the greatest half-miler in the history of women’s running. No one will beat her in Rio. She could run the last fifty yards backward and still win. How do you think the other women in that race feel about that?"
Tough sh't isn't it? What is the argument here - she has a natural advantage over everyone else so yeah lets restrict it.
Why not restrict the hormone levels of anybody who can kick other athlete's asses? Why isn't Ledecky's natural advantage regulated? Why not regulate every athlete's testosterone, growth hormone, red blood cell etc levels so they are all the same?
"What sets Bolt apart is the length of his legs and his extraordinary percentage of fast-twitch fibers and his competitive nature"
This is mindnumbing. Where do you think all these things come from? His genes - same thing that caused Semenya to be born in the situation she is in. His competitive nature that none of his rivals have? Give me a break
And since when is 2% of 2 minutes 5 seconds?
Two pseuds talking about a subject on which they have an extremely tenuous grasp, and on such a large platform too.
Help me out here, 1.55 is too fast for a real woman, and it's 2-3% slower than what a real woman should be running at the highest level?
So how fast or slow should a real woman be running in the Olympics. Is 1.56 too fast?
Since testosterone shows natural variance across the competitors, it is very arbitrary to make a cut-off and say that a certain level is too high for competitors.
Jon Orange wrote:
Help me out here, 1.55 is too fast for a real woman, and it's 2-3% slower than what a real woman should be running at the highest level?
So how fast or slow should a real woman be running in the Olympics. Is 1.56 too fast?
Does T have any effect on performance, Jon Orange?
I'm keeping out of this argument of what is a natural testosterone level for a woman, or a man.
Just saying, 1.55 is 14-15% slower than David Rudisha. That's bigger than 10% isn't it?
Maybe I'm better at arithmetic than Malcolm Gladwell. His article annoys me with it's troll like stupidity. Makes me want to race him over a mile.
Too much rambling, full of questions, not logical in the least, and devoid of rational conclusions.
Allowing men, with adjusted testosterone, into women's competitions with real women is not a rational conclusion.
I LOVE PERNILLE wrote:
This article -
https://thesportspectacle.com/2016/08/16/capturing-semenya/- is by far the best I have read about Semenya recently. Takedown of the garbage put forward by Gladwell and Thompson included.
"The two non-experts express their agreement with what “people are saying†and proceed to dress up their sexism with technical-sounding bullshit about testosterone, hyperandrogenism and gender difference. They discourse about these issues as if it were self-evident that all women athletes should have testosterone “in line with her competitors†even though (for example) no such requirement is made of men.
Gladwell and Thompson stage this conversation without any meaningful discussion of the decision issued by the International Court for Arbitration in Sports, which supported Indian athlete Dutee Chand’s challenge to IAAF/IOC rules which would require women with high T-levels to take hormone suppressants or face a lifetime ban.
Unfettered by the weight of the science on this issue, uninterested in the rationale behind the decisions of the juridical bodies that determine what constitutes fairness in sports, Gladwell and Thompson borrow from the arbitrary nature of sports structures to explain why Semenya should not be allowed to compete. In an extraordinary bit of group masturbation, Gladwell and Thompson cite some more men to make Semenya’s exclusion appear as if it were necessary to maintain the structure of athletics."
The above article was the worst. Some arguments from it:
1. Caster Semenya has no option to compete in a category other than female, because the IAAF has excluded her from competing in the male category. This is viewed as an oppressive form of segregation by the author, designed to perpetuate a "fiction" that men are faster than women.
2. Athletes compete as women by virtue of their gender alignment...this should be shaped and determined by the perception of the athlete and nothing else.
3. Women's athletics does not need to be protected, as it has taken the most "beatings". The only way that women will get better is if they are allowed to compete with men.
In short, the author believes that there is no need to segregate women from men in athletics, and that this segregation perpetuates the ongoing desire of men everywhere to keep women oppressed and under heel. She is in complete denial that at a comparable level of competition, men are significantly faster at all distances. Rather, she would prefer to site stats like the one below:
"Mary Keitany finished the 2015 NYC Marathon in 2:24:25. This time was the 19th fastest overall that year, and about fourteen minutes behind Stanley Biwot’s winning performance. She finished, in other words, 19th in a field of nearly 50,000 people. She ran the marathon faster than all the women and faster than about 28,880 men."
Anyone who does not understand the wide gulf that is 14 minutes in a marathon, will never understand that similar disparity that exists between Semenya and her competitive "peers".
If you ever watched Semenya run, you would realize that 1:55 is not even close to what s/he is able to run.Oh crap, it's you...no, you wouldn't realize it. Never mind.
Jon Orange wrote:
I'm keeping out of this argument of what is a natural testosterone level for a woman, or a man.
Just saying, 1.55 is 14-15% slower than David Rudisha. That's bigger than 10% isn't it?
Maybe I'm better at arithmetic than Malcolm Gladwell. His article annoys me with it's troll like stupidity. Makes me want to race him over a mile.
Jump For Joy wrote:
If you ever watched Semenya run, you would realize that 1:55 is not even close to what s/he is able to run.
Oh crap, it's you...no, you wouldn't realize it. Never mind.
Jon Orange wrote:Maybe I'm better at arithmetic than Malcolm Gladwell. His article annoys me with it's troll like stupidity. Makes me want to race him over a mile.
I liked the irony of this part.
Do you think Jon could beat 5:03 now?
I'm one year older than Gladwell and 20% body fat. If I raced him, I would run on both Pure Love and Pure Hate.
This anti Semenya nonsense is based on what she looks like. If she was cute but androgynous, there wouldn't be such bigotry.
I LOVE PERNILLE wrote:
And since when is 2% of 2 minutes 5 seconds?
Ummm, T level is not directly proportional to running times.