What about the sport? USATF does it again - They will run three 1500 heats that will eliminate at most 2 people

I ran the 1500 Trials in 1996 and they fielded at least 36.

I think they had 36 plus a couple of appeals.

The prelims were 4 heats of 9-10 people.

Then it was top 5 Q plus 4 nest fastest q.

I was 39 on the list and needed 3 scratches and I was pretty sure of at least 4 probable scratches (Spivey and Harris ran just the 5000, Kenah ran just the 800, Nohilly ran just the steeple, etc.)

I wasn't notified by the last day of declarations so I called to confirm if I was in.

They accidentally had me as an auto qualifier for the women (world record!).

When I got there I saw there were a few guys behind me on the list that got in.

They made every effort to fill the fields and were lenient with people on the fence.

I can't believe they allow a hard 30 now, especially with the depth that the US has now.

At this past annual meeting, as well as the one before that, the T&F chairs promised to fill the field after late scratches. Clearly they have chosen to not follow through with this. I have been pushing this for the last 6 years, but it's hard to make anyone at USATF care about #31. They only care about top-3 and emphasize that the Olympic Trials are not an all-comers meet. I find this to be incredibly offensive, as 4:11 is certainly not "all-comers."

This attitude also applies to the top runners. At a recent annual meeting, a certain Olympian suggested that next time these on-the-bubble athletes "try harder." Needless to say, she did not try hard enough this week and did not make another Olympic team.

Anyway, know that some of us are trying. But, USATF just doesn't care.

Lesley H wrote:

At this past annual meeting, as well as the one before that, the T&F chairs promised to fill the field after late scratches. Clearly they have chosen to not follow through with this. I have been pushing this for the last 6 years, but it's hard to make anyone at USATF care about #31. They only care about top-3 and emphasize that the Olympic Trials are not an all-comers meet. I find this to be incredibly offensive, as 4:11 is certainly not "all-comers."

This attitude also applies to the top runners. At a recent annual meeting, a certain Olympian suggested that next time these on-the-bubble athletes "try harder." Needless to say, she did not try hard enough this week and did not make another Olympic team.

Anyway, know that some of us are trying. But, USATF just doesn't care.

I can understand how filling the field could be difficult logistically but there is no excuse for not letting in more. 30 to 24 would be a waste of time. Anticipate people not doubling back so let in 40 on the women's side.

Lesley H wrote:

At this past annual meeting, as well as the one before that, the T&F chairs promised to fill the field after late scratches. Clearly they have chosen to not follow through with this. I have been pushing this for the last 6 years, but it's hard to make anyone at USATF care about #31.

I agree, but that's really not even the issue. Even if we assume USATF will never care about #31, they still should be able to realize 30 runners is not enough to run 3 rounds of 1500, especially with the near certainty of late scratches.

Running a round to go from 30 to 24 is pretty stupid, but it's beyond stupid to stick with 30 when you know late scratches will invariably pare down the field.

(I have no problem with the late scratches, either. Athletes have to cover their bases, and should be allowed to do so.)

Lesley H wrote:

This attitude also applies to the top runners. At a recent annual meeting, a certain Olympian suggested that next time these on-the-bubble athletes "try harder." Needless to say, she did not try hard enough this week and did not make another Olympic team.

Anyway, know that some of us are trying. But, USATF just doesn't care.

It's a bummer to know USATF is this hard-headed. I know many long-time fans like myself would love to see some of these changes. I personally never made that level but I had two friends who did in the early 2000s. I was ecstatic to see them run at the trials.

Usatf can be so frustrating. At least this time when they made a special late addition to the 10K field for an athlete who hasn't hit the qualifer they also let in the athletes between the last qualifier and him.

Eight years ago it was a different Nike athlete in the same boat (Goucher) and they decided to let him in but not the 4 athletes between the last qualifier and him.

So there were 4 dudes who didn't get to run (they all

Flew to meet hoping to get in though) but a guy who ran slower than them did.

actually that's a pretty good idea Rojo, bump it up to 40 and if there are no scratches, then 4 heats of 10. if enough scratches, 3 heats of 11-12ppl. easy peasy, have it planned in advance what the scenario is for 3 vs 4 heats (i.e., how many ppl before you switch from 3 heats to 4), let the process be known (hey, there's a novel concept for usatf!), and simply bring in 40. ridiculous otherwise.

Lesley H wrote:

This attitude also applies to the top runners. At a recent annual meeting, a certain Olympian suggested that next time these on-the-bubble athletes "try harder." Needless to say, she did not try hard enough this week and did not make another Olympic team.

.

Wow. Who said THAT little gem?

gotta be alysia

Dat niqqa wrote:

Usatf can be so frustrating. At least this time when they made a special late addition to the 10K field for an athlete who hasn't hit the qualifer they also let in the athletes between the last qualifier and him.

Eight years ago it was a different Nike athlete in the same boat (Goucher) and they decided to let him in but not the 4 athletes between the last qualifier and him.

So there were 4 dudes who didn't get to run (they all

Flew to meet hoping to get in though) but a guy who ran slower than them did.

Just another example of NIKE screwing over the little guy and using their influence inappropriately.

SCIENCE! wrote:

Lesley H wrote:

This attitude also applies to the top runners. At a recent annual meeting, a certain Olympian suggested that next time these on-the-bubble athletes \\\"try harder.\\\" Needless to say, she did not try hard enough this week and did not make another Olympic team.

.

Wow. Who said THAT little gem?

Only Centro would say something like that.

One complication would be what happens if one of the late additions causes a tumble during the heats, affecting other runners who were on the original qualified list or even one of the favorites. Easy enough to give people a bye to the next round, but if the affected athlete ends up injured that is another story.

Even worse, a pointless 1st round such as you describe will likely be shown live on NBCSN tonight instead of a very exciting wShot final round.

Could they just go top 3 in each heat plus top 3 times and have a 12 athlete final and skip the semi?

Bring Back the 880 wrote:

Even worse, a pointless 1st round such as you describe will likely be shown live on NBCSN tonight instead of a very exciting wShot final round.

you're joking right, female throwers look like men

This is another own goal by USATF. When USATF has a chance to be on national TV, it needs to have races that matter, not just races being run for the sake of having 3 rounds like the Olympics.

Someone needed to think this through because there are lots of better solutions - bigger total field, smaller number of heats, fewer runners in the semis - that wouldn't result in meaningless races.

There are also lots of benefits to filling the field from the descending list. 4:12 women and 3:40 men are not going to hurt the race. Certainly no more than the men and women who were lapped in the 10000s. Everyone you let in then becomes an ambassador to promote track to their families, colleges, and local communities and gets some valuable experience and motivation for the future.

Well, in the words of John Chaplin - "The Olympic Trials are not a god damned all-comers meet!"

Weed wrote:

Well, in the words of John Chaplin - "The Olympic Trials are not a god damned all-comers meet!"

Adding competitors is just one possible solution.

Dropping a round would be a great idea in this case.

A third option would be to schedule it so an 8/15 double is impractical and then there would be fewer late scratches.

Bring Back the 880 wrote:Adding competitors is just one possible solution.

Dropping a round would be a great idea in this case.

A third option would be to schedule it so an 8/15 double is impractical and then there would be fewer late scratches.

Part of what is going on is that there will be 3 rounds in the Olympics and USATF is trying to duplicate that, which is legitimate. There are runners who are great in 1 or 2 rounds but can't handle 3 well, so the strength and judgment to be able to make it through rounds is a valid part of the selection process.

So if you have 3 rounds, you need to have a 1st round field big enough to justify it. Semis have to have at least 2 heats, so the 1st round has to have at least 3 heats to make any sense.

As a result, to duplicate the Olympic format, you either need to adjust the total field size or cut down the size of the heats to 8 or 10 runners, or something like that. A big total field size is best for the reasons in my earlier post and because it more closely duplicates the Olympic field sizes.