The big thing is they aren't fixable, they can't develop a conscience and according to the page they actually have differences in their brain scans than non-narcissists do. I guess the scans show a lack of brain development in the area which regulates conscience, empathy for others and other things. Apparently they can mimic it and can mimic humble too as a manipulation to keep people involved with them but never develop it. "They are so awesome", is frequently heard by people they show their "false self" mask to, they need an audience so they have to cultivate that. To fake something and steal to boot would be quite thrilling for them as it was working, a real "high" and reinforcement to them of their sense of entitlement. Some of the more ill narcissists would do something like this and think it was ok because "people would want to glorify them."
Robert Young fakes run across America
-
Likely didn't want to get caught. Apparently the payoff for true narcissists is something called "narcissistic supply" and that can mean a lot of different things I guess. Some are attention, theft, admiration from others, feeling good they have everyone duped is a special "high", feeling like they are smarter or superior in other ways to everyone else, infantilizing others, feeling like the role of others is to admire them, serve them, prop up the nonexistent sense of self these people have, trying to accumulate "power", trying to be a "star" or to associate with "stars", trying to make sure people don't speak out, there are apparently a lot of reasons.
The big thing is they aren't fixable, they can't develop a conscience and according to the page they actually have differences in their brain scans than non-narcissists do. I guess the scans show a lack of brain development in the area which regulates conscience, empathy for others and other things. Apparently they can mimic it and can mimic humble too as a manipulation to keep people involved with them but never develop it. "They are so awesome", is frequently heard by people they show their "false self" mask to, they need an audience so they have to cultivate that. To fake something and steal to boot would be quite thrilling for them as it was working, a real "high" and reinforcement to them of their sense of entitlement. Some of the more ill narcissists would do something like this and think it was ok because "people would want to glorify them." -
Robert Dung wrote:
From Facebook
Michael Strzelecki Emily Luijbregts, one more thing on this. About 15 years ago there was a runner named Robert Garside who was attempting to set a record for running around the world. Certain Ultra List members proved that he was cheating (and this was before GPS and other technologies). The found many inconsistencies in blog entries and also found that he had to be running at world record pace through desert terrain solo at times. He got caught but the running community. I think some of the older ultrarunners see some similarities between how RY is handling things and how Garside handled things. As an example, when Gardside's camp was asked to resolve inconsistencies or questions, they lashed out to the people and threatened to sue, and never responded or addressed the allegations. When someone from the Ultra List contacted RY's camp to ask for data as verification, they were threatened with a lawsuit by RY's camp if they interfere (the entire response email was posted), and the data issue was not addressed. I think that this is what set the whole thing off.
Can someone on the ultra list post this legal threat?
"Response from crew guy about my post:
Dustin here, part of Rob's crew. Rob is running the miles with witnesses and gps and photos and videos along the way. We are filmed for about 5 days of the route by RV crews in addition. We can't really do much more and what we are doing will suffice for Guinness so should suffice for anyone else. If u want to accuse me of lying about what's happening here then that's very serious. It's not a legitimate question as u call it, it's a terrible accusation, accusing 3 of us of lying and being cheats. It's very serious and I will attend to it legally once this is over and done with if necessary. Legally it is defamation of character. Individuals had better have good reason to get into that or a very good lawyer and deep pockets. Either way there can be no proof of cheating or lying because there has been none. Just don't expect to spit in my honour and not have me take offence. The critics are just envious runners who can't bear anyone else to manage what rob is managing because they can't manage it themselves." -
Seems Rob's coming the raw prawn:
"From the traditional Australian expression: "Don't come the raw prawn!" or "Don't come the raw prawn with me!", meaning: "Don't try to put one over me!" or "Don't treat me like a fool!".
Particularly used to indicate that the listener is aware of the speaker's ingenuousness, for example where the person to whom it's directed feigns innocence or naivety.
Etymology:
Some sources say it is a WWII Australian Army expression. As to why it arose: one suggestion is that the reason lies in cooked prawn being more palatable than raw prawn. However, anyone from a fishing background who has handled raw prawn flesh, will know that it is limp, wet and slippery; like the sort of people at whom this phrase is directed."
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=raw%20prawn -
Racergirl wrote:
For some reason, I can't get the cached page for https://www.justgiving.com/atkins.3peakschallenge.701247 to work, but did get a screengrab just before it flicked to a white screen, which shows the page owner as a 'Rob Young'. This refers to a Three Peaks Challenge in 2007. Now, there are thousands of Rob Youngs in the UK, and I'm not sure he's ever claimed to work for / have an association with Aktins, but maybe worth digging deeper? Is there a way to post the screengrab here?
Nice find, Racergirl.
So in 2004, this Hertfordshire article describes a triathlete Rob Young fundraising towards a big 12K swim and planning 2 more challenges towards charity fundraising: cycling the "three summits challenge" (Ben Nevis, Scafell, Snowden) and some big run.
http://archive.is/z26ng
Then in 2007, we have a "Rob Young" (granted, rather common UK name) fundraising towards the Atkins 3 Peaks Challenge, but we can't confirm it's the same Rob Young (although it would seem high coincidental otherwise) but these 3 Peaks are the "Yorkshire Three Peaks" (Pen-y-Ghent, Whernside, Ingleborough)
https://i.imgur.com/bjiHlMo.jpg (Thanks for link, Geezers)
Here's more on the Atkins 3 Peaks Challenge (although it doesn't mention Rob Young). It's 24 miles connecting those peaks.
http://www.atkinsglobal.co.uk/en-GB/media-centre/news-releases/2007/group/leeds-firm-breaks
Then in 2009, we have another fundraising effort towards the Atkins 3 Peaks Challenge by a "Rob Young" (again, not sure if this is "marathon man UK" or not):
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/atkins3peakschallenge
It would be very interesting if all of this is Rob Young the marathon man. But at this point, that's unknown. But if it is, then he was certainly no coach potato when he claims to become an instant marathoner in April 2014. He would have been quite an endurance athlete (triathlons, cycling, trail-hiking). And he certainly would've already known a great deal about charity fundraising. -
Update from laz:
"I will say this much.
having read 5 bible's worth of stuff about and from RY over the past week,
this is the absolute first mention of his charity that i have seen.
(except, "he is doing it for the kids")
i was intending to ask today;
"what charity is he running for, anyway?"
"is he directly raising money for them?"
because he sure as hell is not calling attention to them.
i do have some ambiivalence;
there are people i know and respect who are still supporting him.
but, all i hear is the "nice guy" defense.
on the other side are those damning videos....
and, more than that, the numbers.
i am a numbers guy,
and those numbers are simply impossible.
even someone who had demonstrated the ability to run those speeds,
would have to prove to me that they could run those long strings of 5:30 miles,
and still log big mileage.
no matter what might be claimed,
physiology is physiology,
and hard effort has physiological costs associated.
if he was fast enough for 5:30 miles to come without a cost...
he would not have the sort of times we can actually verify.
he would not be finishing only around the top third of the two utras he ran.
the only possible positive explanation is extremely poor data collection by his team.
the logical explanation is that he was riding in the van.
making those videos doubly damning.
if he is real,
he should be glad to see team geezer.
if we come out of this with a defense for him,
it won't just be that he is a nice guy,
and we "think" he is genuine.
we will have seen it for ourselves.
i am looking forward to seeing a string of 5:30 miles
or some 70-80 mile days
certainly well over 400 for 6 days.
the results over the past few days
look more like something i would have logged
(years ago)
in an uncrewed journey run.
making this look like some really long days coming
but, i saw someone speculating that he is saving his energy for "team ultra"
hope that is it.
laz" -
hardballer wrote:
This story has proved that the ultra community is completely dysfunctional. .
Yeah, Masumi Herota. -
otherUlister wrote:
Robert Dung wrote:
From Facebook
Michael Strzelecki Emily Luijbregts, one more thing on this. About 15 years ago there was a runner named Robert Garside who was attempting to set a record for running around the world. Certain Ultra List members proved that he was cheating (and this was before GPS and other technologies). The found many inconsistencies in blog entries and also found that he had to be running at world record pace through desert terrain solo at times. He got caught but the running community. I think some of the older ultrarunners see some similarities between how RY is handling things and how Garside handled things. As an example, when Gardside's camp was asked to resolve inconsistencies or questions, they lashed out to the people and threatened to sue, and never responded or addressed the allegations. When someone from the Ultra List contacted RY's camp to ask for data as verification, they were threatened with a lawsuit by RY's camp if they interfere (the entire response email was posted), and the data issue was not addressed. I think that this is what set the whole thing off.
Can someone on the ultra list post this legal threat?
"Response from crew guy about my post:
Dustin here, part of Rob's crew. Rob is running the miles with witnesses and gps and photos and videos along the way. We are filmed for about 5 days of the route by RV crews in addition. We can't really do much more and what we are doing will suffice for Guinness so should suffice for anyone else. If u want to accuse me of lying about what's happening here then that's very serious. It's not a legitimate question as u call it, it's a terrible accusation, accusing 3 of us of lying and being cheats. It's very serious and I will attend to it legally once this is over and done with if necessary. Legally it is defamation of character. Individuals had better have good reason to get into that or a very good lawyer and deep pockets. Either way there can be no proof of cheating or lying because there has been none. Just don't expect to spit in my honour and not have me take offence. The critics are just envious runners who can't bear anyone else to manage what rob is managing because they can't manage it themselves."
Just a remark: This is a fb comment originally that was sent out to the ulist. Also I'm reasonably sure it was posted pretty early in this thread as well. -
running-fan-1997 wrote:
lrc is about running not walki wrote:
DRobertsIMG wrote:
[quote]wouter wrote:
He isn't winning races of significance. His big claims come from solo project which are very hard to verify.
...here until Asher shot a video.
1) Letsrun doesn't care about ultras.
2) People at this ultralist forum where laz is coming from were already skeptical and planning their trip.
This.
He hasn't even attempted to run any real ultra races, with actually fast people.
Plus, people in the ultra world probably don't even know who Jim Ryun is, or who Genzebe is.
And similarly, people on letsrun don't know who Ray K is, or care.
Different worlds.
Really? You mean one world is in the Olympics on an elite stage, and one is not....because they aren't elite. -
otherUlister wrote:
Robert Dung wrote:
From Facebook
Michael Strzelecki Emily Luijbregts, one more thing on this. About 15 years ago there was a runner named Robert Garside who was attempting to set a record for running around the world. Certain Ultra List members proved that he was cheating (and this was before GPS and other technologies). The found many inconsistencies in blog entries and also found that he had to be running at world record pace through desert terrain solo at times. He got caught but the running community. I think some of the older ultrarunners see some similarities between how RY is handling things and how Garside handled things. As an example, when Gardside's camp was asked to resolve inconsistencies or questions, they lashed out to the people and threatened to sue, and never responded or addressed the allegations. When someone from the Ultra List contacted RY's camp to ask for data as verification, they were threatened with a lawsuit by RY's camp if they interfere (the entire response email was posted), and the data issue was not addressed. I think that this is what set the whole thing off.
Can someone on the ultra list post this legal threat?
"Response from crew guy about my post:
Dustin here, part of Rob's crew. Rob is running the miles with witnesses and gps and photos and videos along the way. We are filmed for about 5 days of the route by RV crews in addition. We can't really do much more and what we are doing will suffice for Guinness so should suffice for anyone else. If u want to accuse me of lying about what's happening here then that's very serious. It's not a legitimate question as u call it, it's a terrible accusation, accusing 3 of us of lying and being cheats. It's very serious and I will attend to it legally once this is over and done with if necessary. Legally it is defamation of character. Individuals had better have good reason to get into that or a very good lawyer and deep pockets. Either way there can be no proof of cheating or lying because there has been none. Just don't expect to spit in my honour and not have me take offence. The critics are just envious runners who can't bear anyone else to manage what rob is managing because they can't manage it themselves."
Thanks for that. I only find it even more suspicious when they resort to scare tactics and diversion. If they had nothing to hide, surely they'd happily comply with the requests? Why be offended if you haven't done anything wrong? -
Don't come the raw prawn. wrote:
hardballer wrote:
So let's get this clear, ultra pvssies, especially you British twats, next time you think someone is cheating and you don't dare raise your voice, come to letsrun. Here the American Big Boys will take care of your worries, and eventually bust the cheater for you.
FMD, 'ang on there fella don't come the raw prawn, you're on the World Wide Web and I'm in Australia and made my contribution to exposing this fair dinkum wombat.
This is the greatest post on this sorry excuse of a forum -
otherUlister wrote:
Robert Dung wrote:
From Facebook
Michael Strzelecki Emily Luijbregts, one more thing on this. About 15 years ago there was a runner named Robert Garside who was attempting to set a record for running around the world. Certain Ultra List members proved that he was cheating (and this was before GPS and other technologies). The found many inconsistencies in blog entries and also found that he had to be running at world record pace through desert terrain solo at times. He got caught but the running community. I think some of the older ultrarunners see some similarities between how RY is handling things and how Garside handled things. As an example, when Gardside's camp was asked to resolve inconsistencies or questions, they lashed out to the people and threatened to sue, and never responded or addressed the allegations. When someone from the Ultra List contacted RY's camp to ask for data as verification, they were threatened with a lawsuit by RY's camp if they interfere (the entire response email was posted), and the data issue was not addressed. I think that this is what set the whole thing off.
Can someone on the ultra list post this legal threat?
"Response from crew guy about my post:
Dustin here, part of Rob's crew. Rob is running the miles with witnesses and gps and photos and videos along the way. We are filmed for about 5 days of the route by RV crews in addition. We can't really do much more and what we are doing will suffice for Guinness so should suffice for anyone else. If u want to accuse me of lying about what's happening here then that's very serious. It's not a legitimate question as u call it, it's a terrible accusation, accusing 3 of us of lying and being cheats. It's very serious and I will attend to it legally once this is over and done with if necessary. Legally it is defamation of character. Individuals had better have good reason to get into that or a very good lawyer and deep pockets. Either way there can be no proof of cheating or lying because there has been none. Just don't expect to spit in my honour and not have me take offence. The critics are just envious runners who can't bear anyone else to manage what rob is managing because they can't manage it themselves."
"Dustin here, part of Rob's crew. Either way there can be no proof of cheating or lying because there has been none"
Oh dear Dustin, you are a silly boy, obviously sent before LetsRun got involved and presented the "cheating" and "lying". -
swimandbikeandrun wrote:
Likely didn't want to get caught. Apparently the payoff for true narcissists is something called "narcissistic supply" and that can mean a lot of different things I guess. Some are attention, theft, admiration from others, feeling good they have everyone duped is a special "high", feeling like they are smarter or superior in other ways to everyone else, infantilizing others, feeling like the role of others is to admire them, serve them, prop up the nonexistent sense of self these people have, trying to accumulate "power", trying to be a "star" or to associate with "stars", trying to make sure people don't speak out, there are apparently a lot of reasons.
The big thing is they aren't fixable, they can't develop a conscience and according to the page they actually have differences in their brain scans than non-narcissists do. I guess the scans show a lack of brain development in the area which regulates conscience, empathy for others and other things. Apparently they can mimic it and can mimic humble too as a manipulation to keep people involved with them but never develop it. "They are so awesome", is frequently heard by people they show their "false self" mask to, they need an audience so they have to cultivate that. To fake something and steal to boot would be quite thrilling for them as it was working, a real "high" and reinforcement to them of their sense of entitlement. Some of the more ill narcissists would do something like this and think it was ok because "people would want to glorify them."
Some of this sounds like sociopathy. Do you think that the flying monkey enablers could be other than BPD, and have similar personality issues? -
Ultra list update wrote:
I’ve been passing on forecasts to Laz for a few days, here is my latest:
Since entering MO, averaging 46.76mpd. Using midnight to midnight ET as my “dayâ€.
6-Jun 17.5
7-Jun 71.2
8-Jun 48.3
9-Jun 43.2
10-Jun 39.9
11-Jun 41.3
12-Jun 30.2 current, 41.78 forecasted.
Currently still at Innkeeper Motel according to tracker. Needs to average ~56.41mpd to arrive at Times Square and shave a minute off of record assuming ~210 miles to Indy and ~936mi to Times Square.
Other stats:
ST miles days mpd
CA 272.0 4.58 59.35
NV 20.3 0.46 44.29
AZ 404.0 6.07 66.53
NM 170.0 2.22 76.62
CO 306.0 4.01 76.27
KS 426.0 6.11 69.75
MO 295.1 6.31 46.76
Overall 1,893.4 29.76 63.62
6 day average across each state:
CA 356.12
NV 265.75
AZ 399.17
NM 459.70
CO 457.60
KS 418.49
MO 280.57
First, a huge applause to the Ultra Listers for getting out there to investigate.
I think the case is already closed against him, but those mileage totals by state look extremely suspect. According to his route, he crossed the Rockies in NM and went to huge elevation in AZ as well. My instinct (which could be way off) is that he'd be slowest in those states due to the climbing and elevation, even if he was fresh and wasn't battling humidity. Maybe someone on the Ultra list can chime in? In particular, in NM he had his best totals running almost entirely in the Rockies. In AZ he had to climb almost 7000 ft in 180 miles to get to flagstaff.
Using the following link, I looked up some elevations on his route:
https://www.freemaptools.com/elevation-finder.htm
AZ/NM border: 500 ft
Flagstaff, AZ: 6900 ft
NM/AZ border: 5550 ft
NM/CO border: 9500 ft
Maybe someone with the detailed GPS data can fill in pace with approximate elevations/climbs to see if he's cranking out marathon pr's up in the mountains. -
"It's very serious and I will attend to it legally once this is over and done with if necessary. Legally it is defamation of character. Individuals had better have good reason to get into that or a very good lawyer and deep pockets. Either way there can be no proof of cheating or lying because there has been none."
Dustin old mate, which individuals are you talking about here? Please enlighten us. -
Add to the climbing, the additional fact Mr. Young comes from near sea level (in comparison to AZ & CO, everything in GB is sea level).
Those of us from sea level, frequently find the air a little rare at 7000 - 9000 ft. -
This is the greatest post on this sorry excuse of a forum[/quote]
You likely need to get out of the house more. -
RY's tracker is on the move again, and is about 2.8 miles east of the Innkeeper stop. I didn't see what time they departed, but it must have been about 6:30 Central time.
-
Cecil wrote:
RY's tracker is on the move again, and is about 2.8 miles east of the Innkeeper stop. I didn't see what time they departed, but it must have been about 6:30 Central time.
Somebody better wake up the Ultra geezers! I think they are snoozing in the room next door! -
GetOutMore wrote:
This is the greatest post on this sorry excuse of a forum
You likely need to get out of the house more.[/quote]
No way to talk to my old Mum. -
Cecil wrote:
RY's tracker is on the move again, and is about 2.8 miles east of the Innkeeper stop. I didn't see what time they departed, but it must have been about 6:30 Central time.
It's 83 degrees there (feels like 89 degrees) according to the NWS.
