Hunter v. Slagowski: A Confounding Variable

You say Fisher is a true miler? No way! He just ran 13:39 for 5k, which is loads better than his mile PR of 3:59.

He ran a better mile than 2mi in HS because nobody cares about the 2mi once you're under 9min

1:48.70 while seen much more in high school than the amazing sub-4 is still equivalent to a 4:00.8 mile according to the IAAF. The fact is high school training is getting a lot better and while someone with loads of talent and s**t coaching could run 1:48 that's not to say that it's not pretty much equivalent with sub-4.

Not that it is really relevant to the Slag v. Hunter debate, but your statements about Arroyo are wrong. He ran 8:51 solo in the 3200 on a VERY windy day in HS his senior year. He also ran an international jr. XC meet that year sometime around February. 8k I think. Andres had great range, and is MUCH better 1600 guy than 400 guy. But he appears to have settled on being strictly an 800 guy after that 1:47 at FL Relays his senior year.

Researcher of searches wrote:

jjjjj wrote:

do some research before commenting.

jjjjj wrote:

(and maton?)

LOL

You find it funny that I did NOT comment on Maton without knowing exactly what he did when I said, "do some research before commenting." That is exactly what you should do. If you do not know, ask a question.

Arroyo a 400/800 guy? He ran 800/1600/3200 (look up the incredible times he ran), and probably 400 as well.

We will see Hunter's 800 time this weekend in a pretty big race at UVA. Saturday he will race the Invitational 800 Dogwood Track Classic and race Sean McGorty's lil (and uber talented) brother who has already gone 1:51 this year, Lopez Lomong's lil bro who also ran 1:51 this year and a field of 8 more under 1:55.5. I think Hunter should be going for sub 1:50 and that is what Nolan Jez is putting out there in his preview on Milestat.com

AJ Ernst - 1:51.00

Brandon McGorty - 1:51.60

Alexander Lomong - 1:51.70

Andrew Hunter - 1:53.00

Randall Neish - 1:53.80

Raul Chavez - 1:54.60

Trevor Whiteside - 1:54.60

Ryan Buscaglia - 1:55.50

plus, Hunter is a 5k runner at the end of the day (I think Fisher is a 5k runner too, for the record) I'm not saying he couldn't run 3:50-52 in college, but I think he will be a guy breaking 13:00 in the 5k. He's faster than cheserek was in high school by a bunch, in the mile and 3k and cheserek has split 3:52 and run 7:39 and run a 13:18 5ki think he's closer to Solinsky than he is to Webb, despite his fast mile times this spring. I just don't think Hunter could close a 1500 or mile in 51-52 like other elite milers but will be able to grind a 7:40 last 3k of a 5k if he keeps progressingjust my thoughts based on seeing him race and knowing his 800m times (few and far between i guess)

jjjjj wrote:

do some research before commenting. Slagowski ran 59.x/2:02-3/3:00/3:59, so about 59/63/57/59. 1:48.70 is just over 2 seconds slower than the high school record, but he did it on his own, and in April--giving him plenty of time to run as fast as Arroyo and Brazier in high school. Remind me what Fisher and Maton ran in high school at 800m. They are 1500/5k types, like Hunter. Slagowski is not likely to be top 20 in ncaa xc like fisher (and maton?) and surely hunter. The one thing is that while Slagowski is not close to maxed out at either 800 or mile in hs, Hunter does have a fine kick, as he showed last year against Fisher, twice.

Hunter has decent form; Slagowski has great form--a smooth, beautiful stride, and excellent arm carriage. He runs a bit like Ryan Hill.

The 800/Mile aren't 1 to 1 in high school, predominantly because of a lack of strength development in high schoolers due to their age/training age/general experience. 1:48.70 is a few tenths off of an equivalent performance to Slagowski's mile, and it could be argued that his 1:48.70 is better comparitively considering meet venues and competition. Slagowski can certainly split 1:46.x in a relay and run 1:47.x open.

Another arrogant jackalope. Slagowski ran the 1:48 EARLY SEASON and completely on his own. He looks like he could challenge the HS 800 record if he can get into the right race. He will not challenge the HS mile record. Neither will Hunter. Head to head, Hunter may still have an edge now, but Slagowski has more upside because Hunter is average in the speed dept. Yes, Hunter is a rocket compared to almost every LR poster, but 51.5 as a PR isn't impressive.

I completely agree with your assessment about Hunter as a 5k runner, as well as Fisher. He already has, however, closed a 1500 in 52, and an 800 of a 1500 in 1:53. He did that at USA juniors last year. Since he's so much better at the 3200 than the 800, he's never run a fast 800, but don't assume he can't break 53 in a 400. He's done that within a 1500. His 800 Saturday should give us a better idea of what kind of runner he is.

I'd take Hunter in a Mile race at the moment, even though Slagowski's sub 4 minute mile might have been quicker with a dry track and some competition. The speed versus endurance/strength variable is a tricky one. Sure Slagowski can throw in a 57sec 3rd lap, but Hunter has shown he can close fast on that last lap. It might come down to the final 10 meters and Hunter has shown he can finish strong when its man on man.

I just don't understand how any of you think that Hunter doesn't have speed...have you watched ANY of his standout races?? Brooks PR last year?? The guy has MASSIVE closing speed and that goes along with his incredible sense for racing tactics.

Slagowski is definitely no slouch, but I think Hunter has proven himself more than worthy of having some great speed and I'd take him in a mile.

Side note: As previously mentioned in this thread, Hunter's speed is going to be displayed soon at Dogwood where he'll be racing Yung McGorty who is a consistent 1:50 guy. Wouldn't be surprised if both dip under.

When Hunter nuked Fisher with a 55-second last lap in the Brooks 2 mile last year, I became a believer in his kicking ability. On the other hand, he hasn't put effort into the 400 and 800 that would confirm his top end, whereas Slagowski has.

Going back to Coe v. Ovett, the results of Moscow 1980 (winning "each other's events") show how hard race prediction can be between two evenly-matched athletes with strong mindsets. As I have said, this could potentially be the toughest matchup in prep distance history. Fisher v. Hunter already goes down as one of the best ever, maybe THE best ever. I'm itching to see this play out.

afromanmiler wrote:

that is what Nolan Jez is putting out there in his preview on Milestat.com

having personally met with Nolan Jez you cant take a word he says to be true. While i do think Hunter will break 1:50 he also at one point claimed that Noah lyles will break 20 in the 200. He loves to make outrageous claims about VA athletes and the few times he was right it makes him seem like a genius but in reality he is just playing a numbers game

Andro McNitro wrote:

When Hunter nuked Fisher with a 55-second last lap in the Brooks 2 mile last year, I became a believer in his kicking ability. On the other hand, he hasn't put effort into the 400 and 800 that would confirm his top end, whereas Slagowski has.

Going back to Coe v. Ovett, the results of Moscow 1980 (winning "each other's events") show how hard race prediction can be between two evenly-matched athletes with strong mindsets. As I have said, this could potentially be the toughest matchup in prep distance history. Fisher v. Hunter already goes down as one of the best ever, maybe THE best ever. I'm itching to see this play out.

Fisher nuked Hunter a week earlier in the Dream Mile.

Haney nuked them both even worse at Juniors 1500m.

Hunter's biggest talent is being an absolute animal when it comes down to the wire. The indoor 2 Mile national championship race where Thomet took him to the line was the first time we saw it. We've never seen it in cross country though, as Fisher absolutely destroyed him with ease a few months earlier at Footlocker. If it's close on the track, Hunter is a beast.

Tinman said Drew is in 8:30 two mile shape right now. Slag man has really impressed me with his talent. Read the interview with his coach and the training seems good, but the kid seems to have much room to grow

Another varieable:

What about Eli Krahn & Austin Tamagno in the mix...?

adf wrote:

Oh? wrote:

Absolutely, I agree he has the potential to run faster than 1:48.70. My point was that he wasn't some 800m standout who is moving up to the mile - he is a miler first and foremost, and always has been if you look at his history. He just happens to also have run a good 800m when he let loose a couple weeks ago, though that mark in no way is on par with what he has done in the mile. I think we would be saying the same thing about Fisher or Maton had they ran an 800m.

I think people are saying he's 800/miler rather than pure miler based on his 400 speed. 49-open and 48 relay.

I guess where I disagree is where people think 49.0x open and 48.x relay are fast times for a 400m. I've known plenty of 1:53-1:55 types, or 4:15ish types, that run 49.x open and 48.x in a relay. Those are runners I would say are more "speed" type 800m or miler runners. 49 open and 48.x relay for a sub-4 miler or a 1:48.70 (with potential to run faster in the 800) doesn't match that kind of "speed" type of athlete at his primary distance (mile) or secondary distance (800m).