Choked trying for 3-hour marathon.. What next?

Your training for a predominantly aerobic event. To improve at it your aerobic system needs to improve...obviously. How to do that.. simple, run more miles, run more often (twice a day), run consistently (i.e. spread your effort through the week), don't build your week around any one session i.e. the crazy long run, get used to running at MP.

You need:

More mileage

Doubles, doubles , doubles

Regular long tempos (6 - 10 miles) at MP

Long run capped at 14 miles

Rest / easy days when you feel you need them

You do not need:

20 mile long runs

Tempos run as time trials

Interval workouts / speed sessions

Slavish adherence to a schedule

Not only is lydiard wrong, but you are also. Anyone who was a gifted track athlete in high school can run sub 3 on several years of serious training.If you have a different, more powerful frame, its basically impossible. Its still fun to be a runner and train 80 miles a week, but scale is set differently. (me, obviously. 5'9" 7% body fat wrestler who runs build, PR 3:30). Now, this person would crush the sub 3 person in a bar fight, but not a race.The question is what is your height and weight, and body fat percentage. If you are 5'8" at 180 with 9% body fat. Well, you could go sub 3 if you were dropped from 26 miles up.

Runn262 wrote:

Keep training. Throw in some longer races 10-30K. Be patient. Arthur Lydiard said anyone could go sub 2:40 with focused training. I'm not so sure, but a male at prime age (20-35) can go sub 3:00 for sure. It takes time for capillary development.

My first 8 marathons (age 18 to 21) over a span of 2-1/2 years were:

4:08, 3:51, 3;24, 3:11, 2:57, 2:51, 2:50, 2:43

limmo wrote:

Your training for a predominantly aerobic event. To improve at it your aerobic system needs to improve...obviously. How to do that.. simple, run more miles, run more often (twice a day), run consistently (i.e. spread your effort through the week), don't build your week around any one session i.e. the crazy long run, get used to running at MP.

You need:

More mileage

Doubles, doubles , doubles

Regular long tempos (6 - 10 miles) at MP

Long run capped at 14 miles

Rest / easy days when you feel you need them

You do not need:

20 mile long runs

Tempos run as time trials

Interval workouts / speed sessions

Slavish adherence to a schedule

I like it but and would only disagree with the interval workouts. There is definitely a spot for LONG interval training based on your GP for this level of running.

If you can run 3:04, you can break 3 just by being consistent and keeping injuries away. No need to look for a magic training schedule unless you want some variation to mix things up. People break 3 hours with 70 mpw or 35 mpw. People break 3 hours with Pfitz, Daniels, Hanson, or McMillan.

3 hours is not a physical barrier. 2:30 is a real barrier. 3 hrs is not. It is a huge psychological barrier because there is nothing worse than going through all that training and pain only to miss having a "2" on the front of your time. Lots of people, myself included, get tied up trying to hit the milestone and have some disasters along the way. More than anything, you just have to keep at it. Every time you add another 20 miler on your legs, you will get better at the distance. For most everyone, it just takes time to develop. If you are patient and consistent, you will get there. If you try to force it, you will get hurt and burn out.

I will add this:

You wanted to run a 3 hour marathon so you went out exactly at 3 hour marathon pace. Did your training indicate that you could actually run 6:52 pace comfortably for a long time? Because you don't get to just decide what your marathon pace is at the beginning of a training cycle. I know a lot of people think that's how it works, but it's really not. Your goal should be to get as fit as possible and then let your body tell you what marathon pace that results in. It's fine to have a time goal in mind, but then you have to pay attention to how you're feeling when training, particularly about 1/2 or 2/3 of the way through your training cycle.

Once you have an idea how fit you are, make sure to start the race a little bit slower. If you're as fit as you think you are, you'll negative split and have fun doing it.

I'm a Pittsburgher who has run Chicago 5 times, the Pittsburgh full once and the Pittsburgh half twice, including yesterday.

The course stats don't lie. Most folks talk about the hills in the second half at Pittsburgh but there is over 600 feet of climb in the first half and the full marathon climbs about 1200 feet, about as much as the Flying Pig.

Compare those stats to about 200 feet total climb at Chicago and other fast courses.

Pittsburgh has a beautiful course and well-oiled organization but it is not the place to break barriers or PR.

Yeah it was a rough day out there....

If at first you don't succeed... fu\ck it.

'Current marathon PR (3:04 on an indoor track) was Jan. of this year'

Did you get lapped?

TrackDoctor wrote:

'Current marathon PR (3:04 on an indoor track) was Jan. of this year'

Did you get lapped?

No I don't think I was lapped during that run.

What I would do wrote:

You gotta run more than 55 miles a week.

And don't double until you get up to 80.

You are never gonna be strong in the latest stages of a race where the race distance is nearly half your average weekly mileage in training.

You also need weekly or biweekly 2h+ runs with the last 3rd at M pace or faster to build endurance for the end of the race.

What if OP did 55 mpw average over 5 months instead of just 55mpw peak? Shouldn't that be enough?

Would 65 mpw make much difference or would one need to go higher average (forget peak)?