Choked trying for 3-hour marathon.. What next?

I think it is safe to say you don't have sub 3 ability on that kind of mileage. Maybe not at all. But I would try to get up to 80mpw and maybe you will have a shot.

You gotta run more than 55 miles a week.

And don't double until you get up to 80.

You are never gonna be strong in the latest stages of a race where the race distance is nearly half your average weekly mileage in training.

You also need weekly or biweekly 2h+ runs with the last 3rd at M pace or faster to build endurance for the end of the race.

Chicago is much flatter than Pittsburgh.

The Chicago course alone will probably save 5 minutes.

More quality. Easy days should be longer and easy, 3 workouts a week with a solid progression to specificity where you are running your long runs on tired legs and finishing more and more of them at goal pace. I bet your half pr could use some work because you probably need more threshold work. Alternate 5k/10k workouts with short rest, tempos with alternating paces and rest at 90% goal pace, and a progressive long run done the day after a workout. Mileage increases have to be sensible, but the quality will bring the real gains.

More quality. Easy days should be longer and easy, 3 workouts a week with a solid progression to specificity where you are running your long runs on tired legs and finishing more and more of them at goal pace. I bet your half pr could use some work because you probably need more threshold work. Alternate 5k/10k workouts with short rest, tempos with alternating paces and rest at 90% goal pace, and a progressive long run done the day after a workout. Mileage increases have to be sensible, but the quality will bring the real gains.

I'm in a very similar situation. PR in the marathon is 3:10. Tried to break 3 this spring on a flat course and failed miserably, jogging in at 3:19. I'm 35 years old and did the Pfitz 55-70 plan for this marathon. My plan this summer is to build a very good base of easy runs, up to around 70 mpw. And then try to hit the 80s in late summer/early fall as I train for a November race.

Take the advice given here about progression runs. Pfitz has some great schedules that stress these kind of runs so you're on the right track.

But the point of getting your body used to running at pace is well founded. A lot of people will run a long run, short intervals, and maybe a tempo each week and fill the blanks in with easy runs. This kind of schedule will not get you used to running at marathon pace.

I agree with those who say work it up to 80 but here is an example of how you can run a little less and pull off a decent performance (not your best but decent). For most people it's not a great idea to go from 55 miles to 80+ miles as an increase in a training cycle of they have never done so before. If you have at some point over the past couple of years then your risk for injury goes down quite a bit.

M- easy 4

T- semi long 13 - 15 In the last eight weeks add long intervals at half marathon pace (2x2miles, then 2x3 miles, then 3x3 miles) within run.

W- 5-8 recovery

T- 15 mile progression. First 5 MP + 30-40 seconds per mile, next 5 MP, last 5 let it rip.

F - off or easy 3

S - 8-12 miles easy

S - Steady hard 16-20 miles one week, 20-23 easy long time on feet the next week.

64 - 77 miles

You don't need to be running 400 repeats, 800's etc. You could alternate each week on Tuesdays and do some mile repeats but get used to going heavy on the volume like 8-10 repeats and not like 3-4 repeats. Just tone the pace down a little and try to finish the last two or three really fast. That being said, I've run my best Marathons without the short stuff.

W-

What are your PRs at other distances and do you have any history of overuse injuries when increasing mileage?

When was the last time you masturbated or otherwise had sex? Women weaken legs.

slo-twitch wrote:

What are your PRs at other distances and do you have any history of overuse injuries when increasing mileage?

Do what otter described and figure in some blocks of strength training to prevent injury. Take a break from strength training a few weeks out from the big event.

My advice, and I mean this 100% honestly (not the common letsrun.com smart-ass / snarky way) is to forget about breaking 3 hrs and focus on breaking 2:45 or even 2:40. If 2:59 is your goal, then you'll train just hard enough to have a chance at it. Screw that. Man up, aim higher and blow that modest 3-her goal out of the water. There's a reason why dozens of guys broke the 4-min mile soon after Bannister did: self-imposed mental limits were removed when people knew it was physically possible.

I've run sub 3 hrs on 50-70 miles per week (miler type). How did you run your 55 miles? Are you the distance type or speed type?

Sid Luft wrote:

Chicago is much flatter than Pittsburgh.

The Chicago course alone will probably save 5 minutes.

I think he ran Illinois, not Pitt. Illinois is flat as a board.

Also to those advising more mileage - I broke 3 with ease on 55 a week average in the same race this guy ran. 10 years younger tho, how much of that is age?

First, your times are improving. You know you can run 3:04. What happened is you were still in 3:04 shape when you tried to run 3:00. If you look at the McMillan chart, the difference between an all out effort for 20 miles and 26.2 miles is only 8 seconds per mile. That is why you blew up.

Going straight to 80 miles a week is a very bad idea. What I would do is stay with the same program, but increase your longest day 3 or 4 miles and speed up your fastest day 10-15 seconds/mile. Take your easy days easier if you have to. This will put you at 60 miles a week. After your next marathon, then go to 65 a week for the following marathon. Eventually you will build up the mileage and speed to break 3 hours.

BKCA wrote:

Current marathon PR (3:04 on an indoor track) was Jan. of this year.

Any advice appreciated... Thanks.

Did you win that marathon by coming back after being lapped?

What's next for you? More positive split blow ups probably. See you at a turkey trot sometime.

you have to do the hard training

22-25 miles of hard running(90%-95% of MP), practice depletion, that is how you do it. specificity is the name of the game!

On the positive side if you can run 3.04 indoors round the bends, 2.59 on the roads with a nice gentle tailwind should be a doddle.

It's difficult to advise without knowing your shorter distance PRs and your current training. However, 'hitting the wall' at 20 miles suggest you have a problem with endurance or else your diet leading up to the marathon / on the day. Training wise suggest you make every session count eg one long slow run up (20 miles or so) a fortnight, runs of 10 miles at your target marathon pace, speed work and recovery. 55 miles a week should be ample.

BKCA wrote:

This past weekend I failed to run 3:00. Ended up running 3:24.

Splits:

10K 42:44 6:52 /mi

10MI 1:09:23 6:56 /mi

Half 1:31:07 6:56 /mi

20MI 2:21:27 7:04 /mi

FINISH 3:24:18 7:47 /mi

Fell apart at mile 20, had huge blisters from rain, but regardless didn't feel like I had the fitness to stay near goal pace. Walked mile 23 and jogged it in..

Registered for Chicago on Oct 9th. Looking to go as fast as possible without getting injured during training.

What is a realistic goal pace and training plan for Chicago? Doubles? Just LSD?

Build up for this one was up to 55 miles per week (Pfitz 18 week).

Current marathon PR (3:04 on an indoor track) was Jan. of this year. Fairly recent 5k - 18:27

Previous marathons: 3:10 (last Oct), 3:29 (Last Sep), 3:38 (2007).

38 years old..

Any advice appreciated... Thanks.

Build your mileage up to around 80 miles a week as noted by other posters. You need to do hill work (Lydiards Hill bounding worked for me ) and track work during your final three months. If you training goes well, you can go under 3 hours easily. There is no secret. If you don't put in the miles, you will not run fast ( for you ) marathons.