Mary Cain 9:23 3k season opener. Is this a good or bad sign??

That's pretty solid. Her PR is around 8:50-something Outdoors, so this is pretty encouraging. She'll probably open in sub-4:40 for the Mile.

Ummmmm...I'm going with no bueno.

Who?

Bad lol

Run all by herself lapping the rest of the field.

Not sure if she was tempoing or running all-out. Splits were approximately 3:02 - 3:09 - 3:12.

Puts her in the top 20 US Women at the moment:

https://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/tafn-lists?list_id=1&sex_id=W&yyear=2016

Looking at her splits, she was obviously trying to run a faster time. The time isn't great either way, for her anyway.

Middle distance guy wrote:

Run all by herself lapping the rest of the field.

Not sure if she was tempoing or running all-out. Splits were approximately 3:02 - 3:09 - 3:12.

I must be getting old. Back in the day, I don't EVER remember questioning whether a track athlete was tempoing OR running all out. It would have been ludicrous to even suggest...

Were there 20 random indoor meets every weekend back then too?

Looking back, she improved from a 9:50 3K to a 9:38 2-mile indoors between her sophomore and junior year, over a minute improvement with conversions. 9:23 is in between so we don't have much precedent. In an Olympic year, probably not good.

kljc wrote:

That's pretty solid. Her PR is around 8:50-something Outdoors, so this is pretty encouraging. She'll probably open in sub-4:40 for the Mile.

You're kidding right? In 2013, a few months after she started working with Alberto she opened at 9:02.10 in January .

We wrote that she "ran arguably the greatest distance race ever run by a high school girl today at the 2013 Dempsey Indoor meet at the University of Washington today."

Now - 3 years later - she opens up 20+ seconds later than that and you want to know if it's a good sign? Let me put it this way. I had no idea she was racing tonight. I only opened up my computer because I got a text from a prominent track and field journalist. It read, "Will Mary Cain be at the 2020 Trials?"

I wrote back, "Why wouldn't she be?"

He wrote, "She just ran 923 for 3k."

Now, he may not have known she won by a ton. Some runners can't run by themselves. So I'm not going to be judging her for possibly getting a workout in on an indoor track. Hell for all we know, since she's not on a college team, she may not have access to an indoor track so maybe this was her only way to get a workout in given the recent snow.

But if she goes out and runs 9:23 in an all out race with competition, it's a pretty horrible sign. It would be like Eric Jenkins running 8:05 instad of 7:45.

It was a race but there was no competition - she ran alone or was lapping people the entire way.

but she slowed down a lot so clearly she wanted to go faster.

well she would only get beat by a few high schoolers now

Mr Cena wrote:

https://twitter.com/ArmoryNYC/status/692885218223484929

What was her first race last year and how does this compare?

Good for a 19 yo and/or NCAA athlete, but for a professional athlete in an Olympic year, not good. Most of the top middle distance ladies will open up sub-9 or close to it. 9:28 is a temp run for Emily Sisson, Jenny, Shannon, Abbey, Treniere and Marielle Hall, etc. With that said, I suspect this was a low key rust buster, a glorified training run; however, with her profile she probably should not have raced unless she could run around 9:15.

"Were there 20 random indoor meets every weekend back then too?"

-just as many as now, if not more. And I agree: no one did this half-@$$ "tempo" in races, either.

Those splits are not encouraging. If she had gone a steady 3:05/km, then ok, a good effort workout. But she died significantly at the end - her fitness obviously is not where it needs to be, and even if she's running as a workout, she's not in shape.

The elephant in the room: she has a lovely figure for a normal women, but for an elite runner she's very pear shaped - soft in the middle and large hips. She's perfectly fine for a regular college student, but for an athlete she seems to still be adjusting to a changed body and time is running out this year.

Groot wrote:

Those splits are not encouraging. If she had gone a steady 3:05/km, then ok, a good effort workout. But she died significantly at the end - her fitness obviously is not where it needs to be, and even if she's running as a workout, she's not in shape.

The elephant in the room: she has a lovely figure for a normal women, but for an elite runner she's very pear shaped - soft in the middle and large hips. She's perfectly fine for a regular college student, but for an athlete she seems to still be adjusting to a changed body and time is running out this year.

I almost agree with you. It seems she wanted to make it a race effort, didn't have the legs for it and when that happens with no field around you except for the runners you are lapping it becomes a tempo effort instead of a respectable time and effort. Probably would have been better off racing an 800 or 1K, than a 3K in what amounts to a near tempo effort. It's an arousal mismatch for an athlete of her caliber, she race type arousal, that burns off as the field falls behind turning it into a tempo.

Too many people get caught up in body types or weight. If the focus is running, her running will produce the physiological adaptations it needs. I don't look at body types, I look at structure, tone, and leanness around the ankle and from shoulder to shoulder through the neck line. If those areas are fine, the athlete will be fine. Lean body mass is lean body mass, running economy is running economy, and vo2 kinetics are vo2 kinetics. If you are training right all those things fall into place. Yes, females go through other biological changes which change gait and if Mary is experiencing this she will still be fine, but it may take some time.

kljc wrote:

That's pretty solid. Her PR is around 8:50-something Outdoors, so this is pretty encouraging. She'll probably open in sub-4:40 for the Mile.

It's pretty solid for someone who is shot

Why hasn't anybody suggested Cain switching coaches to Aden? Obviously doing all of her workouts with a 3:56 girl wasn't enough. I think being on the heals of a 3:50 runner would result in impressive performance in no time.

The Armory track right there in the Bronx has plenty of open hours for independent athletes and certainly for her. You have to pay something like $15/time or better yet, get a season pass.