Some members of Oregon militia arrested, one killed

snsnsnsnsnsnsnsk wrote:

But just imagine if the situation were the same situation but they were muslim. They acted the same exact way as these guys but just followed Islam. A group of guys bring rifles and take over a government property, one of whom is obviously a hopeful martyr.

I get what you're saying, but in all honesty, I can't picture it.

"Hopeful martyr" means something entirely different when you are talking about an armed jihadist.

Barry Badrinath wrote:

snsnsnsnsnsnsnsk wrote:

But just imagine if the situation were the same situation but they were muslim. They acted the same exact way as these guys but just followed Islam. A group of guys bring rifles and take over a government property, one of whom is obviously a hopeful martyr.

I get what you're saying, but in all honesty, I can't picture it.

"Hopeful martyr" means something entirely different when you are talking about an armed jihadist.

I'd honestly like to hear why they are ENTIRELY different.

This thread is terrible. No wonder the mods refuse to delete it. I'll fix this. *rummages through troll topics*

Ah, Here it is.

BrosJo, please explain to me why WeJo is friends with a known EPO cheat? The EPO cheat I am talking about is your friend Teddy Mitchell.

http://www.letsrun.com/teamwejo.html

Teddy Mitchell coached his girlfriend, Deeja Youngquist, at the time she was busted for EPO use (2005 with a 2-year ban).

https://www.usada.org/sanctions/

Teddy is also known to have trained with Eddy Hellebuyck while Eddy was using EPO.

http://m.runnersworld.com/workouts/quality-speed-workouts-dont-take-all-afternoon

Please, how can a coach's girlfriend and athlete be using EPO and he not know it? Does he not see the ridiculous improvement?

Also, with all your yammering about Nike and doping, how do you rationalize Teddy being the men's indoor distance coach? He was appointed by USATF which you have so very well shown to be a corrupt Nike shill.

http://www.usatf.org/News/News-and-Notes---Feb--13,-2014.aspx

And, finally, why have all the threads that talk about Teddy Mitchell been deleted from the site?

Please, answer my questions. I have a right to know.

This is correct. And what would they be writing about the people (other Muslims or blacks) who brought the armed terrorists food and supplies to help them out? And about those who had participated but were not charged?

Finicum did not have to be killed. The bundys and others are all held without bail. Hard to develop your defense from a jail cell.

And explain why the pictures were so grainy and of poor quality. Hell my cell takes much better pictures than that.

I have no doubt with one year left Obama is behind this power grad for big government. They were under instructions to kill someone if the opportunity arises and they did.

These people need to learn how to follow the orders of authority, plain and simple. If you look at the video, it is clear that the thug who gets shot represents a danger to all of the authorities trying to apprehend him. He is about 6 feet 5 inches and and 350 pounds (conservative estimate), and clearly looks to posses superhuman strength, just from the way he is standing there. Put yourself in the position of the authorities. They have just concluded a high speed chase, and they are now confronted by these lawless thugs. They have no idea whether they are on PCP or some other mind-altering drug. They took the only action they could reasonably be expected to take. They should be fully exonerated of all charges, and I hope this sends a message to all other thug terrorists about what happens when you try to take over government property illegally.

government too big wrote:

Finicum did not have to be killed. The bundys and others are all held without bail. Hard to develop your defense from a jail cell.

And explain why the pictures were so grainy and of poor quality. Hell my cell takes much better pictures than that.

I have no doubt with one year left Obama is behind this power grad for big government. They were under instructions to kill someone if the opportunity arises and they did.

No Finicum did not have to be killed. Had he not reached inside his jacket, stayed inside the car, or simply laid down in the snow once exiting he'd be alive. If it were anyone else other than a right-wing extremist (race matters but a white punk, tourist from Chicago, you name it) had sped away from being stopped and crashed into a snow drift instead of stopping, leaped out of the vehicle and started reaching for the inside of the his jacket you hypocritical law and order nut jobs would be screaming SCREAMING to kill the guy.

But since he was a right-wing extremist and a cowboy, you feel empathy.

The video was from an aircraft (drone or helicopter) probably some 500 feet away. They said there would be more later.

They are held without bail because they are armed seditionists that do not recognize laws outside of their fantasy world. They took over government property and held it for nearly a month. There would be a risk that they'd do something similar again.

This is Letsrun, where nut jobs gather.

If armed blacks or Muslims had taken over a federal facility saying they were prepared to use deadly force for their cause they would have been killed en masse that night, not allowed to run around town buying snacks and receiving US mail delivery.

Federal ownership of grazing lands--truly a human rights violation against which God has called forth his legions.

You should try to keep up wrote:

No Finicum did not have to be killed. Had he not reached inside his jacket, stayed inside the car, or simply laid down in the snow once exiting he'd be alive. If it were anyone else other than a right-wing extremist (race matters but a white punk, tourist from Chicago, you name it) had sped away from being stopped and crashed into a snow drift instead of stopping, leaped out of the vehicle and started reaching for the inside of the his jacket you hypocritical law and order nut jobs would be screaming SCREAMING to kill the guy.

Finicum did NOT reach inside of his jacket.

The Feds fired on the people inside of the vehicle attempting to murder them too.

They shot him right away and he didn't have any chance to lay down in the snow, not that it would have made any difference. Also there is no evidence that they gave him clear instructions to lay down.

The thug terrorist clearly had hostile intentions. They had just illegally occupied government property for a month and were armed. What do you think their intentions were? For all the authorities know, they were reaching for concealed weapons. They could have had AK 47s or rocket launchers hidden beneath their clothes. You can never be too careful with these thug terrorists. If they did not want to be shot, they should simply have complied with very clear directions. Stop making excuses for these people. They are a blight on humanity.

Made up nonsense wrote:

Finicum did NOT reach inside of his jacket.

Ooops.

I take this back.

I just watched the video.

ssnsnnananannaan wrote:

Barry Badrinath wrote:

I get what you're saying, but in all honesty, I can't picture it.

"Hopeful martyr" means something entirely different when you are talking about an armed jihadist.

I'd honestly like to hear why they are ENTIRELY different.

See my previous comment about muslim terrorists.

Many a car chase has ended the way Finicum's did. He was plenty dangerous and the shooting was easily justified, but "terrorist" doesn't really describe him very well.

Barry Badrinath wrote:

ssnsnnananannaan wrote:

I'd honestly like to hear why they are ENTIRELY different.

See my previous comment about muslim terrorists.

Many a car chase has ended the way Finicum's did. He was plenty dangerous and the shooting was easily justified, but "terrorist" doesn't really describe him very well.

with all due respect, you are proving my point.

I said imagine how this would be handled if the men there acted the same but were Muslim.

All of a sudden they become terrorists and would be killed immediately.

This is what DiscoGary would want, but because they are white, they are protesters.

Then he asks where the white riots are. I ask him, where are the riots when Muslims do the same thing?

Made up nonsense wrote:

Finicum did NOT reach inside of his jacket.

The Feds fired on the people inside of the vehicle attempting to murder them too.

They shot him right away and he didn't have any chance to lay down in the snow, not that it would have made any difference. Also there is no evidence that they gave him clear instructions to lay down.

You're right, he didn't reach inside.

I thought he had but hadn't actually looked at the video.

ssnsnnananannaan wrote:

Barry Badrinath wrote:

See my previous comment about muslim terrorists.

Many a car chase has ended the way Finicum's did. He was plenty dangerous and the shooting was easily justified, but "terrorist" doesn't really describe him very well.

with all due respect, you are proving my point.

I said imagine how this would be handled if the men there acted the same but were Muslim.

All of a sudden they become terrorists and would be killed immediately.

This is what DiscoGary would want, but because they are white, they are protesters.

Then he asks where the white riots are. I ask him, where are the riots when Muslims do the same thing?

They don't "all of a sudden" become terrorsts, that implication was made intentionally, and not by me.

The original intent was clear: to paint the Bundy kooks as terrorists and wonder aloud why no one else is calling for them to be killed immediately (even though people are). The problem is, "armed muslim martyr" paints a very particular picture -- that of a militant jihadist -- which certainly does not describe Finicum or the rest of the group in Oregon. So, lest you be the one describing muslims as terrorists, you went to great lengths in your hypothetical to change just their place of prayer. But a protesting group of "armed, anti-government, muslim, martyr-hopeful-of-the-non-jihadi-kind, cattle ranchers" frankly strains the imagination (at least in the US); hence my response to you. I just can't picture it, and besides, that's quite a long route to trace just so you can call DiscoGary a hypocrite.

You just keep proving my point.

All I said was imagine how this would be handled if these guys were Muslim. Now you're taking about Jihad and terrorisim. You are the one injecting all of these things.

If they did the same thing to "protest" some policy about government profiling or something, they wouldn't be called kooks.

They'd be terrorists commiting Jihad who need to be eliminated instantly. No letting them dick around and waiting weeks to confront them with force.

And yes, DiscoGary us a hypocrite. Huge one.

ssnsnnananannaan wrote:

You just keep proving my point.

All I said was imagine how this would be handled if these guys were Muslim. Now you're taking about Jihad and terrorisim. You are the one injecting all of these things.

If they did the same thing to "protest" some policy about government profiling or something, they wouldn't be called kooks.

They'd be terrorists commiting Jihad who need to be eliminated instantly. No letting them dick around and waiting weeks to confront them with force.

And yes, DiscoGary us a hypocrite. Huge one.

That is not all you said. You asked what would happen if they were armed, muslim, hopeful martyrs. Then you dialed it back from there. Martyrdom and muslims was brought up in the thread (perhaps not by you, but certainly not by me) specifically for the imagery associated with it. You may deny that was the case, but it would strain credulity.

At least your hypotheticals are becoming slightly more realistic. If a group of armed muslims took over a rest stop in the woods, kicked everyone out, and occupied it to protest a government policy, then no, they wouldn't qualify as terrorists. Although, some people would call for blood and complain of special treatment -- just like they are now -- and some people would sympathize and decry police actions -- just like they are now -- and the police would hesitate to get into a shootout to take back what is essentially an outhouse with a help desk. Different story if either scenario occurs in a higher-profile or highly-populated area. Once again you've taken a very circuitous route to calling someone a hypocrite.

Personally, I think the police let it go too long, but I can't blame them for playing a slow game considering how little is at stake. It's clear that none of the occupiers wants to die, though it's also clear that some of them might be willing to (although Finicum was clearly fleeing in a panic). Stake them out, shut off the power, withhold resources, and if any of them tries to run a roadblock and/or reach for something during an arrest, kill them. Seems reasonable to me.

What say you? Do you think the cops should have gone in hot just to show that they're not being too lenient on white people?

ssnsnnananannaan wrote:

You just keep proving my point.

All I said was imagine how this would be handled if these guys were Muslim. Now you're taking about Jihad and terrorisim. You are the one injecting all of these things.

If they did the same thing to "protest" some policy about government profiling or something, they wouldn't be called kooks.

They'd be terrorists commiting Jihad who need to be eliminated instantly. No letting them dick around and waiting weeks to confront them with force.

And yes, DiscoGary us a hypocrite. Huge one.

DicsoGary started a thread about the Denver shootings today, which stated that he's sure they were black or Muslim. The thread was deleted, but it turned out to be a biker gang terrorist shooting. Thoughts, Disco?

You are making up a lot of this shot I supposedly said.

Please prove where I said any of those things. I asked how would this be handled if they acted the same way but we're muslim.

This includes: taking over a government property, carrying pistols and rifles, and one guy saying he would not be taken alive (martyr).

Also, Gary is a massive hypocrite.