Is the global warming movement about saving the environment, or is it about destroying Western culture and progress?

Excellent point Gar Bear - we should trust the API not the govt surely they would never cover anything up.

Precious Roy wrote:

Even if you do not believe a word about global warming, the benefits of a transition to alternative fuels are so huge that any rational being would be willfully denying reality in order to support an indefinite future of carbon based energy.

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I agree. Now please convince your liberal friends to allow us to build nuclear power plants.

They won't let us do that because it isn't about the environment, or clean energy, or sustainability, or any other reasonable point you care to make. The environmentalists actually stand in the way of progress and sustainable clean energy. That should be your first clue that their priorities are messed up.

Global Warming is part of the bigger environmentalist political movement, which has religious aspects, and has morphed into a very big business. It's about power and money, and if we can get that crap out of the way, then real science will solve the problem. Well, science has ALREADY solved the problem, we just need to act on it.

Buy More "Green"! wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

This is a lie. There has been tons of research by highly qualified scientists who sought to poke holes in Global Warming. They have largely failed. Even the American Association of Petroleum Geologists have stopped trying to oppose the clear scientific consensus.

Nice straw man though.

It is the polluters who have billions of dollars to lose from regulation of greenhouse gasses. As good capitalists and marketers, they have taken steps to spread disinformation to convince the public that climate scientists don't know what they are doing.

DiscoGary has obviously been taken in by them.

http://www.campaigncc.org/climate_change/sceptics/funders

Oil and gas companies support climate regulation. More regulation = more influence = easier monopoly.

That's ludicrous. Oil and gas companies have fought regulation every step of the way. This is extremely well documented.

Your assertion is something you just made up.

Buy More "Green"! wrote:

Oil and gas companies support climate regulation. More regulation = more influence = easier monopoly.

You can't possibly be that stupid, can you? Seriously.

The last thing climate "scientists" want are solutions. Then the money will dry up.

Honest Questions R Us wrote:

Buy More "Green"! wrote:

Oil and gas companies support climate regulation. More regulation = more influence = easier monopoly.

You can't possibly be that stupid, can you? Seriously.

See BP

The paranoid disco diva is lying again. There is no global scientific conspiracy.

Money doesn't drive science the same way it drives big business.

Not that funding of research is never influenced by money. It is to some extent. But polluters have a lot more to spend on their own funded research. Yet they still can't change the facts about climate change.

Maybe you need an explanation of how science actually works:

Fat hurts wrote:

Buy More "Green"! wrote:

Oil and gas companies support climate regulation. More regulation = more influence = easier monopoly.

That's ludicrous. Oil and gas companies have fought regulation every step of the way. This is extremely well documented.

Your assertion is something you just made up.

It's a well established fact that regulation ends up helping existing big businesses in the long run and makes it harder for competitors to enter the market, at least with domestic competition.

This is because the big businesses end up colluding with government regulators to either get around the regulations or tailor them to fit the strengths of the big business. Also, big companies have more resources to deal with onerous regulations. Smaller companies do not have the resources to lobby government, and they might not have the profit margins to absorb the hit of regulations.

Walmart ended up supporting ObamaCare because they could take the hit knowing their competitors couldn't. The idea that businessmen are proponents of free markets is a myth. They'll take any advantage they can get.

Slovenia wrote:

Is the global warming movement about saving the environment, or is it about destroying Western culture and progress?

The second one.

Fat hurts wrote:

Buy More "Green"! wrote:

Oil and gas companies support climate regulation. More regulation = more influence = easier monopoly.

That's ludicrous. Oil and gas companies have fought regulation every step of the way. This is extremely well documented.

Your assertion is something you just made up.

For what it's worth Exxon Mobil has publicly supported a carbon tax for many years now. One could plausibly argue that they do so in a cynical bid to kill off competition from dirtier coal favoring their gas and petroleum interests, but there it is more than zero support for regulation from the fossil fuel industry.

Fat hurts wrote:

Maybe you need an explanation of how science actually works:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-degrasse-tyson/what-science-is-and-how-and-why-it-works_b_8595642.html

"How science works"... Huffington Post...

Good one, I got a laugh.

Limousine Liberals wrote:

The last thing climate "scientists" want are solutions. Then the money will dry up.

In science, there is always something new to work on.

Fat hurts wrote:

The paranoid disco diva is lying again. There is no global scientific conspiracy.

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I guess you didn't check into Climate Gate where the leaders of the IPCC conspired to rig the data and destroy the careers of anyone who questioned their conclusions. The same thing is happening in all the "respected" scientific institutions which used to have credibility with regard to climate science. They are burning that credibility to gain power and money. They are getting the power and money, but their credibility is gone forever.

DiscoGary wrote:

It's a well established fact that regulation ends up helping existing big businesses in the long run and makes it harder for competitors to enter the market, at least with domestic competition.

That's not a well established fact. It does happen sometimes, especially when big business ends up writing the regulations.

But climate change regulation has been vigorously fought by the polluters. Again, this is very well documented.

Limousine Liberals wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

Maybe you need an explanation of how science actually works:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neil-degrasse-tyson/what-science-is-and-how-and-why-it-works_b_8595642.html

"How science works"... Huffington Post...

Good one, I got a laugh.

The article is by Neil deGrasse Tyson. He doesn't work for the Huffington Post.

Fat hurts wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

It's a well established fact that regulation ends up helping existing big businesses in the long run and makes it harder for competitors to enter the market, at least with domestic competition.

That's not a well established fact. It does happen sometimes, especially when big business ends up writing the regulations.

I hate to break it to you, but that's all the time. Hillary Clinton doesn't spend her days typing it up herself.

DiscoGary wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

The paranoid disco diva is lying again. There is no global scientific conspiracy.

...

I guess you didn't check into Climate Gate...

Yes I did. I guess you didn't check how thoroughly it was investigated by numerous outside groups and agencies. Nobody did anything wrong. It was a made-up controversy started by a hacker and fueled by right-wing liers.

Again, there is no scientific conspiracy. You are just being paranoid.

Limousine Liberals wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

That's not a well established fact. It does happen sometimes, especially when big business ends up writing the regulations.

I hate to break it to you, but that's all the time. Hillary Clinton doesn't spend her days typing it up herself.

Exactly. Crony capitalism is just as big a problem as the welfare state, and it's enabled through bipartisan corruption. The Tea Party started because neither party was willing to reform crony capitalism.

Big businesses aren't as dangerous as liberals lead us to believe. Even monopolies unaided by government are unstable and usually collapse due to there own inefficiencies and bloat. Big business gets dangerous when it colludes with government. Then they can use the power of government to keep competitors out and they do.

I dare any of you, climate alarmists, to watch the new movie Climate Hustle. As much you all begged us to watch An Inconvenient Truth, I dare each and every one of you alarmists to watch it. After which I beg you to come back and opine.

The movie premiers tonight in Paris. I had the opportunity to view pre-launch. Enjoy and keep your mind open, even if it does not fit your narrative.