Does anyone have the list of John Kellogg's form drills/neuromuscular facilitation set posted on TNF Media/Cool Running?

Robert or Weldon perhaps?

mayyyyybe malmo as well

No, I don't have it.

Is this the shit?

"Put the drills in the middle

Jog for 10-30 min. (depending on how much mileage you want to log for the session), do one set of progressively faster buildups or strides to warm up some, then jog about 5 min., THEN do the drills. Start with step-ups, then go to high knees, then quick steps, then skips, then backwards (reach back a little on each step while jogging backwards for about 50m), then lunges. Next jog another 5-ish min., then do another set of buildups or strides (first ones used to warm up a little again, last ones faster). Finish with a cool-down jog of 10-30 min.

Only do the drills once or twice per week. Over the course of a few weeks, you can replace the high knees with kick-outs and replace the skips with level-surface bounding. Also add ankle bounding (sort of goose stepping while using ankle flexion to "pop" along) between the backwards running and the lunges. After a couple more weeks, eliminate lunges and replace the level surface bounding with hill bounding and replace the ankle bounding with one foot hill hops. Stop doing drills about 2-3 weeks prior to the start of a competitive season.

Purpose of the drills

Step-ups: Exaggerated hip flexion, begins developing quad strength/knee integrity, promotes relaxation and stability while using arms and legs in concert, works on soleus/gastroc strength (when going up on toes), works quads in an eccentric fashion when stepping down

High knees: Exaggerated hip flexion, works on performing more of the action in front and avoiding a long backswing, ball of foot contact promotes foot strength and balance

Quick steps: Encourages relaxation during faster-than-normal arm and leg action, recruits FT motor units at extremely low impact and without lactate production

Skips: These are actually a prelude to bounding and they begin developing an explosive "drive" phase with exaggerated (but relaxed) arm action

Backwards: Eccentric work on the lower quads, ball-of-foot contact, performs something of an antagonistic action vis-a-vis other drills

Lunges: Stretches hip flexors, develops stability/balance

Kick-outs: Exaggerated "in front" action (must be done with no backswing)

Bounding: High level of alactic FT unit recruitment, promotes an explosive "drive" phase (bounding on medium-grade uphills also involves an exaggerated pre-stretch of the ankle)

Ankle bounding: Trains orchestrated ankle flexion and isolates FT units in ths gastrocs

One foot hill hops: High level of alactic FT unit recruitment, develops an explosive "drive" phase, works on balance, exaggerated pre-stretch of the ankle, exaggerated "in front" action (if done properly), orchestrates soleus/gastroc/ankle flexion

Always do drills WITH THE WIND, if any, and use a SOFT, safe, smooth surface. The track can be used for backwards running and for ankle bounding, and bleacher steps can be used for step-ups, but grass (the kind you'd find on a golf course fairway) is preferable for the other drills. Relax, relax, relax as much as possible when doing these things. NEVER hold your breath; ALWAYS breathe in a smooth, rhythmic, normal fashion. Try to get a "loose as a goose" feel. Relaxation is synonymous with efficiency!"

No, I have that post. That was from the old everyone.net board. I am looking for a post either form TNF Media or Coolrunning.com that actually maps out all the drills. None of those above explain how to do it and there are a number of missing drills.

I am fairly sure someone on this board has the posts because a while back there was a guy who copied some exchange between Marius Bakken and JK on the TNF Media board. If that guy reads this, please respond, or JK himself who probably has it saved somewhere.

sounds like the exact drills shown in actual pictures with descriptions in the back of Lydiard's running for young athletes. to take these exact movements to the next level, check out the Pose Method DVD and hip/hamstring exercise book. these drills and exercises and are exactly what Lydiard, Vigil and Kellog presribe but with great explanations that you can't get from these 3 unless directly working with them

Thanks, do you have the name for the book specifically?

Or an Internet link depicting them?

Thanks

Bump. I am still hoping that guy from TNF Media can reply or anyone else who saved stuff from that board.

That's actually pretty close to the actual name of the book: Lydiard's Distance Running for Young Athletes. You can find it at Amazon.com

I really do recommend the Pose Method DVD. It shows you actual movement with pretty good explanations and it gets to the point rather than being drawn out. the guy Romanov is wierd. he's Russian, so it figures, but he's taken what Lydiard has been recommending for decades, What Percy Cerutty called Pure Movement, what Vigil attempts to diagram for a couple of pages in his Road to the Top book, what Renato Canova explains as being the most efficient running form and what you can visually see in any photo of the best african runners and Pre, Shorter and others and put it into a very well thought out series of drills and exercises that simplify the motions for good neuromuscular work. I really don't think anybody has taught biomechanics this effectively since Cerutty went on tour to teach people his Pure Movement concept...which is exactly what Romanov shows in his DVD which you can watch over and over and over and with the beauty of DVD, you can do directly to the parts you want. The hip/hamstring exercise book have the most comprehensive, effective and often difficult collection of core muscle exercises I've ever found in one source that directly benefit running. You can look for exercises on paper, but seeing them in actual movement is much better. I know you wanted to find Kellog's routine, but why practice drills in a routine if you don't know if you are doing them correct so that you cause good neuromuscular effects?

Well, I am hoping by finding Mr. Kellogg's program that most if not all of the drills will already be familiar.

I am surprised you said that Romanov's Pose technique was actually accepted by Lydiard and Cerutty, as well as used by Prefontained and advocated by Renato.

I thought Prefontaine's form was always considered somewhat ragged and Shorter's stride considered as the classic "clipped" marathoner's style.

I have never seen Renato speak about form (except to talk about his Kenyans using exercises) and Lydiard's advice seemed centered around drills like bounding.

Isn't Romanov's method fairly new and controversial? There was a thread about it recently that decried how it was unnatural and so many people were picking up injuries, not to mention the fact that it was exactly the opposite of that used by people like Haile Gebrselassie.

I never said these runners use this method. It is a newer set of drills to bring about the form that is natural of great runners. Pre and Shorter and Geb all run/ran with the technique prescibed in Pose to a large extent (they run/ran on the ball of their feet, lift their heel directly under their hips, don't overstride and don't waste energy with a huge toe off). I say check it out yourself. I dismissed what seemed to be gimmicky triathlon bullshit at first, but after I watched the DVD and let other fellow elite runner friends watch it, we all came to the conclusion that it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. It's actually very natural and similiar plyometric drills that have been taught in our hs running programs and collegiate running programs, just more refined. You definately put some words in my mouth saying the Cerutty and Lydiard accepted this method. I never said that. What I did say is that what is prescribed by Lydiard and Cerutty, Vigil and Canova in his 'Scientific Approach to Marathon Training' book is nearly verbatum what has more recently been advocated by the Pose method and in greater detail, which you could have received if you would have worked with these coaches one on one, which few of had or can have the opportunity to do. I have watched Geb, Tergat and many others in slow motion for the entire course of a taped 10k race, 5k race and bits of marathons and it is exactly what is prescribed by Pose. None of these athletes are trained in this method, they are natural, but then again Geb is reported to do one hour sessions of butt kicks to assist the neuromuscular aspects of his form. Lydiard goes into varying length of discussion on form in each of his books. The diagrams in the young athlete book focus on hill bounding, but also lifting the foot under the hips with the hamstring and landing on the ball of the foot. During the drills he recommends forcing the heel down with the knee bent so that the runner feels like he/she is gently stretching the achilles tendon, but not to the extent that there is heel striking. I can't imagine becoming injured off of using these drills, unless you do them barefoot on concrete improperly landing on your toes rather than the ball of your foot with your heel raised too far off of the ground which strains the achilles tendon and plantar fascia...

You can read threads on the matter or you can watch a simple DVD and make your own conclusions.

Thank you for the info.

Out of curiosity, where did you heare that Gebrselassie does "one hour of butt kicks"?

I would be surprised if this is true as that drill does not seem to apply to any portion of the running motion. At no point should the calf be purposely bent up towards the butt (i.e., knee lift will allow this to naturally happen as part of the recovery phase, but the runner never "makes" this happen) in the way used in this drill.

I was quoting what I read in an exert from the book when it was previewed on the BBC.

I also doubt he does butt kicks as we think of them, but rather brings his foot directly up under his hips pulling up with his hamstring practicing leg speed, but this is just a guess based on the fact that butt kicks would ingrain poor muscle memory effects.

so, are you going to check out the dvd and come to your own conclusion or just take advice from letsrun posters? i also recommend the Canova book to anyone who hasn't read it. You can get it from IAAF

I will try to check out the DVD but I am still interested in seeing KEllogg's list.

Liam Devlin wrote:

I will try to check out the DVD but I am still interested in seeing KEllogg's list.

In a few days I can get my hands on the Running Times article someone mentioned and will type in the salient points, if there are any. But right now I'm stuck at the home of the ol' ball and chain's parents, so you'll have to be patient and hope I can get out of here without killing someone.

FORM DRILLS

These should be done two to three times per week over several weeks during base training, always followed by

an easy day. Try the following drills, stressing relaxation and form over effort. Land on the balls of your feet and use opposite-arm motion with any drill that involves stepping.

Step-ups: Stand facing a box or step, and step up right foot/left foot, then down right foot/left foot. Do two sets of 20 complete steps (up-up-down-down) with a one-minute rest between sets.

High knees: Step forward, raising right knee to bring thigh parallel to ground; repeat with left leg in a prancing stride (no backswing). Do two sets of 20 steps, covering eight to 10 meters, with 30 seconds rest between sets.

Quick steps: Step from foot to foot very quickly, keeping knees low, landing on balls of feet and barely moving forward. Do two sets of 40 steps in about 10 meters, with 30 seconds rest between sets.

Skipping: Skip with a high knee action and exaggerated arm drive. Do two sets, each covering about 40 meters and increasing the height and distance of stride within each set; rest 30 seconds between sets.

Once you are comfortable with these drills, you can gradually replace them with the following:

Kick-outs: Alternating legs, bend knee to bring heel to buttock and thigh parallel to ground, then kick leg forward (no backswing). This drill requires practice to

keep back straight and arms in sync. Do two sets of 20 complete steps each; rest 30 to 60 seconds between sets.

Hill bounding: Bound up a moderate grade (preferably on grass) by raising the front knee, planting the foot strongly, then pushing off by straightening the leg and

pushing downward and backward. This is basically a running motion, with the leg remaining straight slightly longer than normal upon takeoff. Do two sets of 30 to 40 meters; walk downhill between sets.

Hill springing: Do two sets of near-sprints up a 50- to 70-meter hill, exaggerating vertical motion; walk down

between sets.

The drills offer variety in foot strike,range of motion and muscle-fiber recruitment, which can help prevent injury. “Tons of plodding with the exact same rhythm and

distribution of impact stress—and novice runners do a lot of this—is bound to lead to injury at some point,” says Kellogg.

So has anybody done these drills for the 2-3 weeks it is saying? I'm curious to see how well these work because I may add them into my training.

lets

curious wrote:

So has anybody done these drills for the 2-3 weeks it is saying? I'm curious to see how well these work because I may add them into my training.

Come to the TCU track in the summer, you will basically see 2 training groups:

One group is made up of wannabees. Their staple in July when its 100+ degrees is quarters. They throw in some 800 & 1200's but pretty much its hard repeats. They have some ok runners, nothing great. There are guys who have made a vast improvement; one guy dropped a minute off his 5000 pr (we're talking low 17 so dont get too excited).

The other group is led by Kellogg. This group are not exactly world beaters but the majority are old school runners who have had some past success. We do a warm up, buildups, form drills and a few sets of maybe 150's to 200's. We cool down and go home.

Every year it's the same results. Group A is competitive in the summer and early fall. By mid fall Group B has caught group A and are destroying them in the winter and spring. A couple of guys from group A celebrate a 2:55 - 3:05 marathon in the winter and have a mediocre spring. They will make plans for the same summer training program because it obviously works. This group knows who we are, know our past, knows kellogg and know they are welcome to hop in anytime yet they choose to hammer out quarters in august.

so to answer your question; form drill work, every good coach advocates them

Met the Fockers:

I have the old Running Times Issue with all those drills. I am still looking for that guy from TNF Media.

fartlaps:

This is interesting. Do you train with Kellogg? What sort of times is that group running, and what other work do they do during the week (if you know)?

Thanks.