Does cross training make you faster?

sent to steal your gains wrote:

is it that the aerobic benefits are essentially pointless because they occur in the wrong place?

I'm not a physiologist, but this is my general understanding, that is, that the meaningful aerobic adaptations are on the muscle end rather than on the heart/lung end. Different aerobic exercise modalities may not benefit aerobic running specifically. General fitness and injury resistance may be a different story.

That said, there are successful elites that do significant cross training. Off the top of my head, Meb has said he does time on the bike, the elliptigo, and some strength and flexibility training. The NOP guys do the underwater treadmill and strength and balance work.

I doubt you'll find anybody who is not primarily a triathlete doing as much biking and swimming as the OP claims.

formerD1 wrote:

Lol NO!

Cross training only helps to the extent that you can marginally increase your aerobic fitness and muscular strength without risking injury, or because you can reduce your running load while somewhat limiting the decrease in fitness levels.

Running is the best training for running. Cycling will do nothing but develop the wrong muscles - you don't need massive quads to run a marathon.

Cross training is for the weak. You don't want to spend that extra time doing extra running (because it's either boring or too painful) so you try to compensate by doing something more fun and/or engaging. Like I said, the only legitimate reason for cross training is increasing load without injury risk.

If you want real cross-training that WILL help your running, throw away the bike and instead:

1) Do some yoga or pilates (seriously)

2) Variation in training (intervals / hills)

3) Weight training

Can't tell if you're a troll or an idiot. Any type of cross training will make a difference and help you gain strength and endurance. When I made the decision to do biking and swimming in addition to running 70 miles a week, I made a huge jump: 27:0x to 25:3x in 8k, 4:29 to 4:20 in the mile, 33:20 to sub 32 in the 10k. All in the matter of one year. If you actually believe what you just wrote you are the type of runner that 1. I hate and 2. Are so close minded that you would be a terrible coach for athletes that can't handle high mileage and get hurt easily.

A friend of mine has a coach like that who hates that he swims and bikes a few times a week in addition to his running. He ran very well this year (for him), 26:0x, and is roughly the 8th or 9th best runner on his team, but his coach doesn't treat him like the other runners because he only believes in cross training when injured.

Do everyone a favor and don't ever become a coach.

I feel like the purpose of swimming and biking is overlooked in the context of the triathlete argument. Triathletes are training to optimize all 3 disciplines while detracting as little as possible from each. For a pure runner, swimming and biking shoukd be done to supplement and detract nothing. So if you are hammering on the bike and in the pool and you are by default taking energy away from your run session if you aren't fully recovered. It seems that perhaps as long as any cross training is not done to the detriment of running workouts, then it would be beneficial. That also addresses why it is good in general for return for maintaining fitness when not running at all.

Sent to steal your gains wrote:

Are you a proponent of lifting/core and plyometrics or is that too removed from running as well? Where do you drawn the line, for instance alter g, aqua jogging or underwater treadmill?

I actually mentioned in my earlier post that these are the types of cross-training that runners SHOULD do (also mentioned yoga/pilates for core and stretching). Why lifting/core/plyometrics and other "biomechanical" training?

1) All D1 schools do it, so it must be right :)

2) Core muscles are important to proper activation of your stride / hip flexion

3) Running at [x] pace for any duration is very static and places a very repetitive load on very specific muscle groups, so you need dynamic inputs on your "support" muscle groups and connective tissue in order to build strength to run FASTER and more effeciently

Alter g, aqua jogging and underwater treadmill is really only used when you're injured, since you can achieve the same benefits but better by doing plyometrics and other land-based drills.

As long as you're not injured or hurting, you need to be moving your legs and running in one form or another.

Shut up and go back to hobby jogging.

Idiot. Wrong. So if I decide to spend 5 hours a day playing baseball, that's going to help my strength and endurance AS A RUNNER? Lawls. As you said, "ANY TYPE OF CROSS TRAINING." Seriously, what a hobby jogger.

Wow! Sub 32 in the 10K!!! Honestly, I get where you're coming from. Cross-training WORKS for hobby joggers, because hobby jogger weak bodies can't handle the training adaptations of high level running FAST enough. Therefore yeah, if you're a weak little sissy who gets injured easily, by all means, CROSS TRAIN. However, if you are at a high level of running, running more is always the best option because your body can handle the extra load BETTER than an average hobby jogger such as yourself. So we don't need to waste our time swimming/biking.

I'm the type of runner you wish I was, running better than your times in high school, and in college, surrounded by Olympians and All-Americans. You call me close-minded, you're the blind one who has never been exposed to training at the highest level.

Go back to peddling your crap to your fellow hobby joggers. D1 athletes and above are too tired after doing doubles everyday on top of lifting/mechanics workouts to then go out and put in serious miles on the bike or laps in the pool. You only do that crap when your injured, burnt out or maybe a bit in the off-season (which is like 1 week).

tr-eye wrote:

Do everyone a favor and don't ever become a coach.

And for your information, most people such as myself (D1 or above) don't pursue coaching after running. Most coaches are hobby joggers such as yourself, who read some idiotic book and infest these forums and all of a sudden decide to pursue their passion "coaching" since they could never cut it as an actual athlete. Problem with people like you is that you have a very limited view of what and how elite athletes are training in the real world. So you prescribe to a delusional world of crap and nonsense perpetuated by other delusional hobby joggers such as yourself.

Hey, whatever makes you sleep at night, coach. But don't ever forget, you NEVER made the team, and you NEVER had what it took to make the team. And no amount of reading idiotic triathlon books is ever going to change that.

Hugs.

1. My point with my times is that I improved, that's it. I'm not naive enough to think those times are actually fast.

2. By cross training, I was referring to biking, swimming, elliptical, etc. You should be able to infer that pretty easily.

3. Obviously running is the ideal way to get better at running. I wasn't saying these things are better than running. It's using them as supplementation that makes them better.

4. Depending on the time of year, I'm running 80-100 miles a week and doubling, so your assertion that I'm a hobby jogger and don't seriously train just because I put in extra work on the bike and in the pool is just wrong and completely uncalled for.

5. I could care less about how fast you run. I was referring to your "I'm better than everyone in every way just because I'm faster than them" attitude.

6. Because I'm not surrounded by Olympians (I am surrounded by AA btw), I'm not training at a high level. No I don't have access to everything D1 athletes have by default because the programs have more money, but that doesn't mean I can't train at a high level.

7. Not sure why you just assume that I don't lift or work on mechanics consistently because I'm a "hobby jogger" is a little odd as a way to attack me, especially considering I do both several times a week.

The problem with people like you is that while your advise is probably good to the vast majority of runners out there (the hobby joggers of the world), it could seriously detriment the training of those who aspire to greater things.

Take some D2/D3 kid, running for a pretty crappy program with a coach who's not all that great. Maybe they don't even have XC/Track as a varsity sport, forcing them to mostly train on their own. Kid can run a 25:30 8k, but wants to get faster. He wants to qualify for NCAAs. He's already running 70mpw, not sure where to go from there. He comes to letsrun.com and reads this thread and decides to start swimming or cycling. Now that would be some crappy advice.

formerD1 wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Youre close minded.

You're a hobby jogger, go away.

Almost nobody running at the D1 or above level cross-trains (unless they are injured/about to be injured).

El G, Bekele and Geb were not wearing tights and doing tempos up Mt. Ventoux. They were running, and running, and running, and running.

Go back to runnersworld.com.

Well,., wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blju2h3Sedk

A video of a retired Geb working out in his own privately owned and operated gym, in a documentary about his GYM and his SCHOOL! Whereas the active Ethopian runners are shown NOWHERE NEAR such gym, and are instead actually running! Insightful indeed.

BTW, I'm a huge advocate of strength training (I mention it in pretty much half of my posts) and core and biomechanic training. But that's due to my D1 background. I know athletes in certain African nations don't place nearly the same level of emphasis on strength/biomechanics as we do in the Western countries.

My memory may be faulty, but I remember reading somewhere that El G didn't actually strength train in the sense that we understand, but instead did "dynamic" strength building exercises using low resistance cords and bands and stuff of that nature. I'm also pretty sure the Japanese marathoners aren't lifting weights either, and they do something like 150 mpw.

urrquality wrote:

Not to be a jerk, but your cross training will help less than you think. This experiment has been done countless times before. ....

You'd be better off just doing your 70 miles consistently faster.

Then why it does work so well for Meb?

"Keflezighi estimates he ran 140 to 150 miles during a typical 9-day cycle before Boston. “That’s less than would have been the case in 2004,” when he won the silver medal in the Olympic marathon, he says, “but now I also do a lot of cross-training.”

"Keflezighi typically rides between 10 and 20 miles on his ElliptiGO, which is one of his sponsors."

So basically, Meb cross-trains now because he's older and can't handle the load anymore - he's also admittedly slower now. There's also the fact that he is being paid by ElliptiGO, which kind of you know, makes him either use it or claim to use it.

But even though he cross-trains, he's running north of 110 miles per week.

you are either a pu$$y or an impotent. Probably both.

Loser.

formerD1 wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Youre close minded.

You're a hobby jogger, go away.

Almost nobody running at the D1 or above level cross-trains (unless they are injured/about to be injured).

El G, Bekele and Geb were not wearing tights and doing tempos up Mt. Ventoux. They were running, and running, and running, and running.

Go back to runnersworld.com.

I am not, and youve shown yourself to be a moron. Its quite easy to prove so lets just keep it simple:

Nick Symmonds cross-train.

formerD1 wrote:

So basically, Meb cross-trains now...

You're acknowledging now Meb does cross train which refutes what you said earlier that:

"Almost nobody running at the D1 or above level cross-trains"

So you're wrong. Make sure your little millennial brian thinks up some good ad hominem attacks to respond with. Don't hurt yourself trying to think them up.

I was an ok runner as a young guy, 3:52 1500, 14:59 5k for example. Always loved cycling, so took a stab at Duathlon and made the worlds team (age group admittedly but 20-25 so fairly competitive). Anyway, took it very serious, dropped running mileage from 90 to 70, started putting in 150 miles on the bike and became a 8:19 3k, 14:33 5k and to my surprise a 30:22 10k runner. I'm not setting the world alight, but I'm not that talented as a runner. Cross training CAN work, you can get more aerobic work, stronger all round, burn more calories and avoid mental staleness. I don't think the original poster was asking how to become world class, just whether it worked for people.

What about MF Meb wrote:

urrquality wrote:

Not to be a jerk, but your cross training will help less than you think. This experiment has been done countless times before. ....

You'd be better off just doing your 70 miles consistently faster.

Then why it does work so well for Meb?

My guess is that Meb has used that moving elliptical thing exactly the amount of times he's been filmed riding it. Easy sponsorship $$

Meb is an exception to the rule and he is only cross training now as a masters runner.

I didnt realize letsrun.com catered to uncompetitive hobby running standards. For young active and competitive runners cycling and swimming is for losers only.

All hail to the mighty "former" D1 star that lives in the past!

formerD1, take some time to read over your posts. You sound like an absolute douchebag. Have some respect!

I was unaware that in order to read or post on letsrun, it was imperative to be capable of running 150 mpw and be a top-evel elite.