Somehow I don't think the DOE will force a woman who identifies as a man to use the men's locker room. The men in the locker room likely won't object.
Somehow I don't think the DOE will force a woman who identifies as a man to use the men's locker room. The men in the locker room likely won't object.
able2see wrote:
dictionary.com
I'll just post the link for any objective readers to view:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascismHow's the weather in the UK right now?
YesYesYes wrote:
Get used to it.. wrote:You stupid conservatives try to use the slippery slope arguments at the worst times. It really makes you look stupid. There are laws against public indeciency. There are no laws against co ed showers...next!
Wrong.
According to Lambda Legal
http://www.lambdalegal.org/-
"A transgender person should use the restroom that corresponds to his or her gender identity. (We are talking about a boy here, SO HE SHOULD USE THE BOYS ROOM).
"The medical community (and increasingly, employ-ers, schools and courts) now recognize that it is essential to the health and well-being of transgender people for them to be able to live in accordance with their ***internal gender*** identity in all aspects of life—restroom usage is a necessary part of that experience.
"In Doe v. Regional School Unit, the Maine Supreme Court held that a transgender girl had a right to use the women’s bathroom at school."
NEXT.
I'm not sure you'll ever get it since a few people have pointed it out and you've still missed it, but...
Gender identity is the gender that a person identifies with. This is different from their biological sex. The person in this case identifies and female, so their gender identity is female.
Likewise, internal gender is the gender which a person feels that they are.
The Maine Supreme Court case you've cited also shows that you misunderstand what you're saying.
lambic wrote:
I understand that this is unfamiliar and can be challenging for many. At some point, we have to decide what is an acceptable reason to be uncomfortable, and what isn't. Think about it this way: what if it was a lesbian student, and the district said that she had to use a separate locker room? What if the student in question was black, and white students were uncomfortable using the same drinking fountain as the black student? Reasonable people can disagree about what is appropriate, but I, and the ACLU, and the Department of Education, agree that "discomfort" in this case is discrimination.
To get more specific: what is the actual worry here? That your daughter would find out what external genitalia look like? If she goes to a D211 school, she's lucky enough to have sex ed as part of a required health class.
Are you afraid that the transgender student is going to behave inappropriately? Because that's not determined by whether the person is transgender or not-- straight, cis-gender students can behave inappropriately in a shared shower situation, too.
What is your actual concern about having a transgender student showering in the vicinity of other students that share her gender identity?
(FWIW, I grew up in the area, and graduated from Palatine HS, a D211 school.)
Well played. Well played.
It's my move. Are you ready?
I am willing to be tolerant of others and their life style choices, their comfort levels, and their sensitivities IF ... a GIANT "if" ... if they are willing to be tolerant of MY life style choices, MY comfort levels, and MY sensitivities.
Sooooooo, I would like to propose a solution to this problem which can accommodate everyone.
Since they intend to force ALL the children in that school to live by one standard whether or not they choose to, I suggest that we put in place a school voucher program that would allow the parents to choose among many local schools, so that the money could follow the child. School choice. This would allow some schools to force everyone to shower together for those who want that kind of life style for their kids, while parents who didn't prefer that could choose a local school without that requirement.
Will our friends on the left accept that compromise? Are they tolerant enough to live and let live without bringing in the iron fist of the Federal Government to force everyone else to live according to their values?
If not, then what are you afraid of?
Your move.
DiscoGary wrote:
lambic wrote:I understand that this is unfamiliar and can be challenging for many. At some point, we have to decide what is an acceptable reason to be uncomfortable, and what isn't. Think about it this way: what if it was a lesbian student, and the district said that she had to use a separate locker room? What if the student in question was black, and white students were uncomfortable using the same drinking fountain as the black student? Reasonable people can disagree about what is appropriate, but I, and the ACLU, and the Department of Education, agree that "discomfort" in this case is discrimination.
To get more specific: what is the actual worry here? That your daughter would find out what external genitalia look like? If she goes to a D211 school, she's lucky enough to have sex ed as part of a required health class.
Are you afraid that the transgender student is going to behave inappropriately? Because that's not determined by whether the person is transgender or not-- straight, cis-gender students can behave inappropriately in a shared shower situation, too.
What is your actual concern about having a transgender student showering in the vicinity of other students that share her gender identity?
(FWIW, I grew up in the area, and graduated from Palatine HS, a D211 school.)
Well played. Well played.
It's my move. Are you ready?
I am willing to be tolerant of others and their life style choices, their comfort levels, and their sensitivities IF ... a GIANT "if" ... if they are willing to be tolerant of MY life style choices, MY comfort levels, and MY sensitivities.
Sooooooo, I would like to propose a solution to this problem which can accommodate everyone.
Since they intend to force ALL the children in that school to live by one standard whether or not they choose to, I suggest that we put in place a school voucher program that would allow the parents to choose among many local schools, so that the money could follow the child. School choice. This would allow some schools to force everyone to shower together for those who want that kind of life style for their kids, while parents who didn't prefer that could choose a local school without that requirement.
Will our friends on the left accept that compromise? Are they tolerant enough to live and let live without bringing in the iron fist of the Federal Government to force everyone else to live according to their values?
If not, then what are you afraid of?
Your move.
So... kind of like Separate but Equal, right?
able2see wrote:
DiscoGary wrote:It's fascism. I don't throw that word around lightly.
fascism
/ˈfæʃɪzəm/
noun (sometimes capital)
1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
2.
any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc
3.
prejudice in relation to the subject specified: body fascism
It's stupid, heavy-handed and kind of ridiculous, but it's not fascism.
Merriam Webster
fascism
: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government
: very harsh control or authority
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
Political correctness as practiced by the left definitely fits definition #2, so it's fascism. It's hard core fascism.
Oh Man Oh Man wrote:
DiscoGary wrote:Well played. Well played.
It's my move. Are you ready?
I am willing to be tolerant of others and their life style choices, their comfort levels, and their sensitivities IF ... a GIANT "if" ... if they are willing to be tolerant of MY life style choices, MY comfort levels, and MY sensitivities.
Sooooooo, I would like to propose a solution to this problem which can accommodate everyone.
Since they intend to force ALL the children in that school to live by one standard whether or not they choose to, I suggest that we put in place a school voucher program that would allow the parents to choose among many local schools, so that the money could follow the child. School choice. This would allow some schools to force everyone to shower together for those who want that kind of life style for their kids, while parents who didn't prefer that could choose a local school without that requirement.
Will our friends on the left accept that compromise? Are they tolerant enough to live and let live without bringing in the iron fist of the Federal Government to force everyone else to live according to their values?
If not, then what are you afraid of?
Your move.
So... kind of like Separate but Equal, right?
The whole point is that different schools WOULD be unequal. You're for choice aren't you?
You don't want people to have a choice do you? You don't care if other people are uncomfortable as long as you can force them to live according to your values. Just what I thought. Exactly what are you afraid of?
Property values in that town are going to drop through the floor. Those folks have a SERIOUS problem, worse than the White Privilege crap I have to deal with.
Can you short real estate?
LGBTQFDGDFGDF wrote:
Seeker of Equality wrote:However, my 14 year old daughter should not be forced into showering with what otherwise appears to be a 14 year old boy.
Your daughter doesn't have to shower at school.
And neither does the transgender individual whose feelings you value above all else. Why aren't you in favor of having the tranny shower elsewhere?
I would be interested to know if this will be the rule going forward. Will all people who identify as another gender be forced to use the bathroom and shower facilities of the gender they identify themselves as?
Otherwise they will be able to choose, which doesn't seem fair as no one else gets to choose.
If internal gender (the gender they identify themselves as) is the rule, you could have people being made to shower with people of another sex, which would surely have it's own problems. You could have 'don't ask don't tell' all over again.
NUFCrichard wrote:
I would be interested to know if this will be the rule going forward. ...
I sure hope so. This will do more to reform public education than anything I can think of.
I used to try to warn people that the left was indoctrinating our kids in school, but they couldn't believe it was that bad, so they did nothing. Now I can point to this and they'll believe anything I say about leftist over-reach in schools. It's all good.
This is a gold mine.
Seeker of Equality wrote:
LGBTQFDGDFGDF wrote:Your daughter doesn't have to shower at school.
And neither does the transgender individual whose feelings you value above all else. Why aren't you in favor of having the tranny shower elsewhere?
No one is putting anyone's feelings above others. No one is forcing your daughter to do anything. People like you want to force the tranny to shower else where. See the difference?
Guys, I found this play script on the internet ... apparently it is in the works. We'll see.
#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#
Title:
The Girl see an appendage - Marina Santa Ana High School!!!
Play script-
The Girl:
"Hey Mom, today I was in the locker room and when I turned to my left hand side I saw a male appendage for the first time in my life. And it was erect."
The Mom:
"(Gasp) How did that happen?!"
The Girl:
"You see, there is this mentally ill or delusional person that claims to be a girl but he really is a boy. The school officials readily allow him to undress with the girls."
...
this story appeared in the daily caller. i would double check the facts before making any grandiose arguments based on it.
How can anyone make an argument for one side or the other side if this article without us all seeing pictures of this so called Transgender first....?
Maybe the township should relabel the dressing rooms the Penis Locker Room and the Vagina Locker Room. There, problem solved.
DiscoGary wrote:
able2see wrote:fascism
/ˈfæʃɪzəm/
noun (sometimes capital)
1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
2.
any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc
3.
prejudice in relation to the subject specified: body fascism
It's stupid, heavy-handed and kind of ridiculous, but it's not fascism.
Merriam Webster
fascism
: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government
: very harsh control or authority
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
Political correctness as practiced by the left definitely fits definition #2, so it's fascism. It's hard core fascism.
Nope. It's not even fascism-lite. The legal standards are evolving. The issues are being hashed out in courts, school boards, boardrooms, and human resource departments. We don't live in a dictatorship, or an autocracy.
An autocracy is a system of government in which supreme power is concentrated in the hands of one person, whose decisions are subject to neither external legal restraints nor regularized mechanisms of popular control (except perhaps for the implicit threat of a coup d'état or mass insurrection).
There is a solution that avoids the objections of the left. That is, to divide bathrooms and locker rooms not by the boy/girl dichotomy, but rather, by the penis/vagina dichotomy.
If this person identifies as female, do you really think they're going to be showing off their wang? None of the girls are going to see anything.
No Way wrote:
If this person identifies as female, do you really think they're going to be showing off their wang? None of the girls are going to see anything.
But he will.