DiscoGary wrote:
douglas burke wrote:What did the founding fathers say about transgenders?
My understanding is that this person is an XY male, so he has the right to use the male locker room, and has no right to demand to use the female locker room.
What about people with an XY and Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome?
Overboard here ye come wrote:
FTFY wrote:I fixed that for you.
Your argument, while clever, is off point. White and Black only bathrooms, schools, lunch counters, etc. were established by racists in order to segregate blacks and whites on some false, stupid, cruel and nonsensical notion that blacks were inferior to whites. Boys and girls restrooms/ locker rooms were not created to intentionally discriminate against transgender people. For the most part, they were established to provide young men and women with privacy while they changed and showered after PE and sports practices. This school board didn't create separate sex locker rooms to make sure they had a plan in place to ban Lila from PE class.
While gender might not be very clear in rare circumstances, let's not make it fluid, either, where all you have to do to change your gender is announce it. If he wants to be a woman, fine. Take the necessary surgical and hormonal steps to do it. Until then, he is a male who SAYS he is female. Seriously, you've got to draw the line somewhere in the sand. That's not being cruel, it's just being practical.
So it's ok if something discriminates as long as it doesn't "intentionally discriminate"? That's not how it works. Discrimination is discrimination.
Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:
DiscoGary wrote:My understanding is that this person is an XY male, so he has the right to use the male locker room, and has no right to demand to use the female locker room.
What about people with an XY and Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome?
You know. I'm starting to like the direction this is going. This will destroy the public school system by driving people out of these politically correct cesspools of insanity. Something else will pop up to take their place, and it will serve the people better.
Either we have separate facilities for everyone who asks for it, which will break the bank, or force all the young girls to stand naked in front naked boys, which will force parents to pull all the girls out of school. Either way, this brings down the status quo.
I screwed up. I'm going to stop fighting this. This is good. Carry on full speed ahead. Force everyone to accpet LGBTXYZ at the point of a gun and let's see where the chips fall.
I feel for the trans and inter folks, I really do. I do not dislike them and I want them to be included in society. We will have to figure out a way to make this work. I want to share an odd scenario that occurred the other day:
I had to see a specialist for my first colonoscopy. I am 39 and I need to start getting one every 5 years due to family history. I went to a new GI doc and as I was getting the initial check up, the nurse asked me if I "identified as a cis male." I had never heard of this so I asked what she meant. She explained that if I identified as a cis male, it meat that I considered myself to be a heterosexual male. I kind of looked at her weirdly and said, "I'm just a regular male, I am not sure what you mean." I got home and realized that my response probably made her angry.
I too want people who are different to feel that they fit into society. It's too bad that they are being used as battering rams to divide people and stir up anger and distrust. The politics of victims-and-villains works, but comes with a very heavy price.
DiscoGary wrote:
I too want people who are different to feel that they fit into society. It's too bad that they are being used as battering rams to divide people and stir up anger and distrust. The politics of victims-and-villains works, but comes with a very heavy price.
Sorry but these people are as seriously ill in the head as Ed Gein and Jeffrey Dahmer were. They clearly need help, but trust me, you really do not want to try to fit them into society.
Lib Rules wrote:
Overboard here ye come wrote:Your argument, while clever, is off point. White and Black only bathrooms, schools, lunch counters, etc. were established by racists in order to segregate blacks and whites on some false, stupid, cruel and nonsensical notion that blacks were inferior to whites. Boys and girls restrooms/ locker rooms were not created to intentionally discriminate against transgender people. For the most part, they were established to provide young men and women with privacy while they changed and showered after PE and sports practices. This school board didn't create separate sex locker rooms to make sure they had a plan in place to ban Lila from PE class.
While gender might not be very clear in rare circumstances, let's not make it fluid, either, where all you have to do to change your gender is announce it. If he wants to be a woman, fine. Take the necessary surgical and hormonal steps to do it. Until then, he is a male who SAYS he is female. Seriously, you've got to draw the line somewhere in the sand. That's not being cruel, it's just being practical.
So it's ok if something discriminates as long as it doesn't "intentionally discriminate"? That's not how it works. Discrimination is discrimination.
How is he being discriminated against? The girls nor the boys get to choose which bathroom or locker room they get to use, why should he? The bathrooms and locker rooms were divided by chromosomes, not by preference or self identification. He's a biological male, he's assigned to the male bathroom. He was offered use of a unisex bathroom, as would any other student that didn't want to use his or her gender assigned bathroom, and he refused it. Who is he to insist that everyone cater to his demands? Because he is transgender doesn't mean he is excused from having to compromise or empathize like every other person in the world. He would be being discriminated against if he wasn't being allowed in either bathroom, and forced out of gym class because he says he's a girl. At this point, he's dropped out of gym class by choice (my guess is getting out of gym class was his real intention all along).
There is a difference between equal rights and special rights.
Was "it" hot?
Calling it like it is wrote:
DiscoGary wrote:I too want people who are different to feel that they fit into society. It's too bad that they are being used as battering rams to divide people and stir up anger and distrust. The politics of victims-and-villains works, but comes with a very heavy price.
Sorry but these people are as seriously ill in the head as Ed Gein and Jeffrey Dahmer were. They clearly need help, but trust me, you really do not want to try to fit them into society.
No. Whatever is going on with this kid, he isn't a mass murderer.
Lib Rules wrote:
So it's ok if something discriminates as long as it doesn't "intentionally discriminate"? That's not how it works. Discrimination is discrimination.
Based on your name, I'm thinking that you're a troll but, just in case, I'll respond anyhow.
Having men's and women's categories in sports could be deemed intentional discrimination. Having separate washrooms and changing areas for men and women could as well.
Are you advocating that we do away with these categories and let every human being compete in one sporting category and shower together? Women are going to love that...
If it's okay to tell all of the other boys and girls which sports team and which locker room they're allowed into, based on their biological gender, then it's okay to do the same with the transgendered kid. It's not discrimination. It's being consistent with how you apply rules.
Also, if progressives want separate restrooms and showering areas for transgendered people, they can go and crowd-fund the construction and land-use costs themselves. I don't want my taxes or fitness facility membership rates to go up, just to feed the delusions and wants of a few mentally ill individuals.
I have a question. I am a man. So if the draft starts up again and the government is looking for all eligible men to join, so then I choose to identify as a woman, can I get out of enlisting?
It's all about how I feel right, so no one can question my gender, even when I am a man but feel like a woman.
This thread is ridiculous.
You know, statements like this are amazingly simple minded and un-aware of the diversity in the world.
Are you telling me you wouldn't be confused if you saw Evelyn Rios next you washing her hands in the Men's bathroom?
Or your girlfriend/wife/female friend be upset about seeing Michael Hughes coming out of a stall in the woman's bathroom?
http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/B0042.jpg
You want elaboration on this?
https://twitter.com/hashtag/wejustneedtopee?src=hash
Also, lets talk science and the 3 different categories here. 1) self identification 2) biological classification 3) social-ital expectations.
#1 has been shown to be affected by biological processes. In fact recently there was a test in mice which modified the development of one area in the brain which caused biologically male mice to have some feminine behaviors, but not all behaviors. Other areas affected had other changes as well.
#2. What biologically classifies each gender? Someone already brought up the XXX, XYY, etc etc. Are we going to claim only those with bait and tackle? Nice to know Doctors have that choice in their hand when some intersexted are born. Or because it's not quite right, modified to fall much closer into the mean.
#3. This is worst of all... Blue is for boys and pink is for girls right? Wrong.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/when-did-girls-start-wearing-pink-1370097/
as the quickest link. Look to the asian rim for ... forgot the term. But it's a frigging fluid thing that happens over generations. We are literally just to short sighted to see in easily within our own timeline.
. W. H. I. N. E. Y. wrote:
Well first things first, our entire system of government was literally designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority. And as "established standards of society" are constantly evolving, and often indefensible (this argument was also made to defend everything from slavery to subjugation of women), it is hardly a substantive reason for the continuation of something.
The amount of ignorance on this subject displayed here is staggering.
What's ignorant is not realizing that the founders were animated by competing ideological ideas: "republican" (i.e. majoritarian rule) ideas and "liberal" (i.e. fundamental rights) ideas. There's a robust debate over which strain predominated, though it's pretty fair to say that the answer depends largely on geography and precise time (republicanism was predominant before the revolutionary war began, particularly in New England, whereas liberalism gained traction by the turn of the century).
Cis Male wrote:
I feel for the trans and inter folks, I really do. I do not dislike them and I want them to be included in society. We will have to figure out a way to make this work. I want to share an odd scenario that occurred the other day:
I had to see a specialist for my first colonoscopy. I am 39 and I need to start getting one every 5 years due to family history. I went to a new GI doc and as I was getting the initial check up, the nurse asked me if I "identified as a cis male." I had never heard of this so I asked what she meant. She explained that if I identified as a cis male, it meat that I considered myself to be a heterosexual male. I kind of looked at her weirdly and said, "I'm just a regular male, I am not sure what you mean." I got home and realized that my response probably made her angry.
I'd read about the CIS label a while back. It struck me as peculiar that by stating I was just male ( that's it, just male, no other identifier needed), to some people, I was somehow being insensative and a bit cocky.
sbeefyk1 wrote:
What's to stop a normal boy from pretending to be mixed up just to spy on nude teenage girls?
His b0ner
logic-could-be-used wrote:
Once was wrote:Because there's a physical, tangible and perceptible anatomically difference. Sexual preference should be largely irrelevant; there should be no way to gauge it if said person is behaving in reasonable manner.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but it is worth pointing out that you are defending discrimination on the basis pf physical differences, which is obviously just like racism. This makes me suspect you simply have not thought very much about this yet (as I dismiss the possibility of you really believing in racism).
I'm not trying to offer a strong opinion, I just don't like ignorant ideals mudding the water.
racism is judging someone based on their race, where there is no difference. There is a difference between these individuals and that's why this is nothing like racism. And people comparing this to racial segregation are totally missing the point.
Society needs to decide what to do with people who are actually different. That usually means support them and make their differences not exist. But at some level it is not allowable, but we don't know what that level is.
The true argument at hand is, do we need to protect one gender from changing in front of the other?
My thoughts.
They are minors. and I would not expose one to the other.
I feel u shouldn't be allowed to change your gender till you're legally an adult. Too much drama going on.
RunWild wrote:
sbeefyk1 wrote:What's to stop a normal boy from pretending to be mixed up just to spy on nude teenage girls?
His b0ner
What if the person in question is a boy, who self-identifies as a lesbian?
Rojo- Your post isn't politically correct!!! You need to say how great & brave transgenders are!! Therefore, your letsrun career is over & you're blackballed from future employment.
Down with political correctness.
Down with LGBT (I grant them the right to marry but no other special privileges or protections).
Down with the "progressive" movement.
Down with the Obama and the Democratic Party.
Down with MSNBC and CNN.
Down with emotionalism.
Down with groupthink and group consensus.
common sense would be to desexualize these types of situation. why do we need separate places to change or pee?
i remember my first series of races in europe, first up was an XC race in northern germany. elite and citizens races. co-ed showers afterwards.
next up was a half marathon in finland. co-ed sauna for all afterwards
the 'political correctness' is in saying we must separate the sexes. we must stand for the pledge of allegiance. we must put our hands over our hearts during the national anthem. we must support the military. we must support the police....
blech...
