What's a GO TO 800 workout need to PB in 16 days!

A good sharpening workout is 2-3x(150-100-150-100) where the 150's are like 80% 200 pace and the 100's are jog with a 5 minute break.

need2pb wrote:

June was 2:30

last night

1:15

1:15

1:18

1:15

1:07 with a partner and I put my spikes on

thank you

I recommend that in 3 days or so you do a 200-400 speed session on the track in racing spikes, something like this:

- 5 x 200 on 2-3 mins recovery in 32 OR

- 300-250-200-150 on 10-12 mins recovery at 16secs per 100 - so 48-40-32-24

Then, another 3-4 days later (so about a week after your 5 x 400 session), do the 400s session again, but this time do only 4 of them, in spikes, with 4 mins rest. Try and go 72-73s for them all - and just think in your head "fast but relaxed".

if you can do both those sessions at those speeds, you should be able to run 2.24-2.26 for 800. First lap 70-71.

Otherwise your usual training on the trails. I'd suggest doing 1 min hard and 1 min easy for 10 mins or so, but you need to work on speed more from the sound of it.

Good to see you on the boards, KP. My guy managed to win his state XC! Base, subthreshold stamina runs, cruise intervals, and still does sprint training twice a week. It's a template for success for a guy who can cope with endurance work, but isn't bereft of IIA fibres, and has a reasonable sprinkling of IIB.

I'm always happy to second almost everything KP suggests. However, at this point, why not keep it simple. Go for the staple 6x300 @ goal 800 pace with 2 to 2:30 minutes rest. I'm not sure about hardass 400 workouts, you haven't prepared for them. You could get fried.

I commend you on building up an endurance base on trails. If you want to run a good 800, you need to train many more paces both above and below 800 pace to provide speed and endurance support.

My free advice, FWIW, is this. Have as good a XC season as possible. Continue building base. Don't forget to put in faster aerobic efforts that are harder but still only moderate effort. Do 10k pace cruise intervals during the buildup period.

And, whatever distance you want to focus on, learn how to sprint from the ground up-that means acceleration and max velocity, good form, strength and suppleness, strong core. Find someone who knows how to administer the Functional Movement Screen, and get it done. You won't believe how poor even talented athletes' basic movement patterns are. Go to a sprint coach and do it properly twice a week. XC preparation is an ideal time to start. Do not let anyone dissuade you from this.

Sorry.

300 then rest 10min then 250 rest 10 mins then 200 then rest 10min etc...??

Congrats. First time?

My kid's pretty much ditched the 800 for now, focusing on 400 and 400 hurdles. Seems to be in about 22.2/49 flat shape right now, midwinter. Times plummeting since Nationals in March, must be having a strength hit. He's got to run some 800s in a few weeks, so it'll be interesting to see how he goes off sprint/400 training and irregular cruise interval/fartlek sessions averaging once a week. 400 time is down, but aerobic fitness should be down too - well, I assume. He never did a lot of it as you know. At 18 I ran a 1.59 off sprint training and no endurance training at all. I'd have been in about 49-second shape at the time. He wants to start knocking over some of his dad's PBs, which is a bit rude.

And OP, I pretty much support what LiG says by the way. As he says, sprint and running mechanics are too often neglected. It amazes me how often people on these boards complain about a lack of speed, when they do no speed training at all.

I'm not an expert at the 800m, but I have a workout I could recommend.

5x300m @ 800m pace w/ 100m jogging recovery (45 seconds)

This should really help mentally and physically

Karma Police wrote:

Congrats. First time?

Yeah, quite a surprise to actually win it. Neck-and-neck with two other guys with 200m to go. Put 4 seconds into them with a final sprint-guess sprint training pays off! Actually, I'm sure it improves turnover, running economy and efficiency over the preceding 5800m, so, allied with the endurance and stamina, you get to the final stretch in better shape than what you would have.

I think that your kid's endurance needs could be met with cruise intervals and tightly controlled track tempos, preferably on a grass track, at the appropriate paces as suggested by Ron Grigg (excellent source of info if you haven't looked into it yet). I chuckled at your comment about the distance grinders whinging about not having speed, but are clueless about how to acquire the skill. Still think 200m reps are 'speed work'!

Good luck with the track season. We're looking forward to some 1500/3k stuff for the School T&F (you're in Oz, aren't you?), as it comes up too soon, and 800 training is a big leap from what he's been doing, especially since he wants to do as well as possible in the Nat XC end of August.

Cheers LIG

4 seconds in 200m? Impressive.

I'm in Sydney by the way.

Agree - the cruise intervals are what we've used to get the aerobic work, but I struggle to find time to fit it in. Ideally Sundays, but we've been using that time to get some specialist coaching.

Yeah - XC to 800 in 4 weeks is tough. He should go well over 1500 though. If he's in the age group I think he is - 2nd and 3rd at State XC won't match your boy over 1500. I guess the boy who came 4th has been the main man, but everyone's catching up (or has caught up). Could be a big breakout year.

He's 17 in Qld. The lad BM in 2nd has been a beast ever since they were ten. Done a lot of hard training. Did 3:50.26 trying to get to WYC, and 8:30 recently. So 2nd would be just fine!

thank you for the reply but I don't understand it :)

I don't know all the running lingo, I just like to run :)

What don't you get?

- 300-250-200-150 on 10-12 mins recovery

Sorry, wrong State.

Yep, I know BM. At my kid's 1st track nationals 4 years ago, BM and DT were incredible in the 800. Both were already big boys by then.

Can't believe we have to go to Perth next March. My son's never made All Schools but should this year. We've got scheduling issues in his 2 events in the NSW titles that I'm working on - his 2 events are perfectly spread at Nationals, but on the same day at NSW. Not happy - they should have the same clash as Nationals. Anyway...

need2pb wrote:

- 300-250-200-150 on 10-12 mins recovery

The full rest implies max efforts, enhancing anaerobic power. When training 800m, after a good grounding in the acceleration/max velocity work, like flying 40-60m sprints with full rest (roughly 1minute for every 10m sprinted), you can extend that out. Train 100m pace with 6x80m with 8min recovery. Progress to train 200m pace with, say, 5x150m (95 to 100% effort) with 10min rest, or as a transition, 2x(4x50m) with 90sec between reps, and 5min between sets. Progress to 400m pace (Special Endurance 1) with, say, 4x250m with 12min rest. Special Endurance 2 is more demanding, but you could do 2x350m very hard with 20min rest, but only if properly prepared with the previous work. Or, you could hop in a 400m race.

Before SE2, you should be able to cope with bread and butter 800 pace stuff like 6x300m at 800 goal pace with 2min rest, preferably a bit of a jog. Or 2x(5x200m), with 90 sec between each rep, and 5min between sets. Within each set, you could start at 800 pace, and do each subsequent rep fractionally quicker (I mean 0.2 seconds). Now, you are improving anaerobic capacity.

The two workouts in the second workout could help you now, and a few sets of 6 to 10 50m sprints with full recovery (4min should do) will stimulate fast-twitch fibres. But like I said in the previous post, and especially as you show endurance capability, you need a comprehensive, structured, and properly sequenced program that takes all of this stuff and more into account, if you want to safely get the best out of yourself.

That is meant to be "the two workouts in the second paragraph"

The part that confused me was

for 200's I get 3 minute rest but for the

- 300-250-200-150 I get 12 minute rest.

this is all very helpful. a lot to digest for a newer teen runner.

They are very different workouts.

Starting from short-to-long, you have a range of workouts designed, initially, to improve raw speed. This starts with acceleration, and then, maximum velocity (fastest you could possibly go), which can only be maintained for maybe 60m depending on how good a (non)sprinter you are. For 7 to 8 seconds energy systems that produce tons of energy and produce no acidosis (lactate) will move the muscles. After that, acidosis builds up and you start to tie up.

The idea is to extend the reps to 80m, 150m, 250m, and 350m. These are done at 95-100% of 100, 200, and the last two, 400m pace. This builds up a more and more acidotic body state as the distance increases, and the system requires adequate rest to do another intense rep. For instance, you might do 6x80m with 8min rest, 2x(4x50m) with 90sec b/w reps and 5min b/w sets, 5x150m with 10min, 4x250 with 12min, and 2x350 with 20min rest, as a progression over time. The latter two are doable examples of what is called Special Endurance1 and 2, respectively. These workouts gradually increase your anaerobic power, the ability to flood your system with a ton of acidosis in one hit, and increases various enzyme and buffering systems to cope.

Partial rest reps are much more familiar to distance runners, erroneously called 'speedwork'. They can be done at various paces from 10k to 800m pace. The partial rest means you don't fully recover from acidosis, and learn to simulate the demands of the actual race. Eg, At 10k pace you could do 6 to 10 cruise intervals of 1km with a 1min 200m jog recovery. 5k and 3k pace intervals are just faster with more generous rest (but still partial). These tend to cause considerable systemic acidosis, and should be regarded as a powerful stimulus to both the aerobic and anaerobic system.

Now, you're more interested in 8 and 1500m pace reps. Get the idea that are faster again, and have comparatively little rest for the effort put in.

Examples might be 8x300m at 15P with 90sec jog recovery: 6x400m at 15 pace with 2min; 4x500m at 15P with 2min as a finisher.

For 800, some staples are 6x300m at 8P with 2min rest, 2x(5x200m) 8P with 90 sec b/w reps and 5min b/w sets. Or, how about 500m at 8P with 4min rest, 400m with3min, 300 with 2min, 200 with 1min, 100m to finish. These will increase your anaerobic capacity.

As I said before, solid and ongoing aerobic development-regular runs, long run, harder aerobic runs (word out your 'marathon' pace runs, tempo runs and tempo i/v (with the background cruise reps done most of the year.

If you build up both endurance, stamina and speed. The work endurance and stamina are maximised.

Thursday I did 5x200 so I should have done another 5x200.

I was baked after the workout so all this will take time :)

Will racing the 1500m at 10:00am prevent me from a 800 PB at 2:00pm?

if I run the 1500 at a 9/10 effort for team points.