Slow twitchers doesn´t need the fast repetition/interval work like some faster runner would need. If they try to, it´s very possible that they harm the asset they have, a very good aerobic capacity. Alberto Salazar had zero real fast twitches in muscle biopsy, and I believe Clarke was the same type. He didn´t have the kick either. Overall the repetition training depends from the event, periodization and the type of the runner. A 800/1500m runner like Coe had 50/50 ratio of slow/fast twitches, that´s why he benefitted from massive repetition training, but he had the endurance and LT work also in his program.
Steve Cram did very rarely intervals in the winter and still ran pretty fast in the summer, etc. I would say that repetition training is overestimed in the base phase very often, no matter the main event of the runner. But of course if you´re 800-1500m runner, the real speed work (100-200´s) with LONG RECOVERY (anaerobic capacity) should be there year round.
better off without intervals??
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good post!
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A serious discussion about training?
What happened to this forum?! -
U.N.O. wrote:
Slow twitchers doesn´t need the fast repetition/interval work like some faster runner would need. If they try to, it´s very possible that they harm the asset they have, a very good aerobic capacity.
When are people going to unlearn the silly myth that you use more oxygen going slow than going fast???
You use the most oxygen when your muscles are at their lowest pH, because the higher pH gradient between muscle and blood speeds gas exchange. Yes a lower percentage of your overall energy output is aerobic; no it is not a lower oxygen consumption level than at slower paces.
MaxVO2 is baloney too. The inventors of the concept assumed that the true maximum could be reached after several minutes of incrementally more strenuous exercise. You can't reach the highest pH gradient that way, any more than you can get as heavy a piano on your back at the end of a 5000 as in an 800.
Middle distance pace, middle distance effort. The only drawback is injury risk - it's hard to do much volume and running in circles takes its toll. And it's hard to go fast in bad weather, thus traditional to do slower "base" in the winter, which happens to be offseason for most. -
By aerobic capacity I do not speak about MaxVO2, if you assumed that. I didn´t mention the word oxygen at all.
By aerobic capacity training I mean intensity from easy base work to about lactate threshold-tempo run intensity, even faster but avoiding high lactates, but anything where you will get closer to maximum HR intensity AND higher lactate accumulation is rather transport training, for the heart´s bumping capacity, aka aerobic POWER, which will not build the capacity very well. A plateau will be reached in just weeks, depending of the level of the aerobic and anaerobic capacity. Some runners with good aerobic and anaerobic capacities will need more aerobic and anaerobic power (middle distancers) work to be ready for racing, the really slow twitchers will not need or tolerate as much of it, if any.
This is why we speak that everyone´s different and need different kind of training. And have to remember; doing the same training throughout the career won´t work optimally, you have to modify it as you get older. -
Bad Wigins wrote: When are people going to unlearn the silly myth that you use more oxygen going slow than going fast???
You use the most oxygen when your muscles are at their lowest pH, because the higher pH gradient between muscle and blood speeds gas exchange. Yes a lower percentage of your overall energy output is aerobic; no it is not a lower oxygen consumption level than at slower paces.
Do you have a source or study for the above? Not challenging you, just would like to do a bit more reading on the above. -
Bad Wigins wrote:
Middle distance pace, middle distance effort. The only drawback is injury risk - it's hard to do much volume and running in circles takes its toll. And it's hard to go fast in bad weather, thus traditional to do slower "base" in the winter, which happens to be offseason for most.
Why you would need to do much volume at middle distance pace/effort in the base phase?The injury risk is not the "only drawback", in the base phase you should be pushing the BASIC capacities. It doesn´t happen optimally by trying to run as much volume as possible at middle distance pace or effort. -
And so "Bad wiggins" has left the thread, after one ridiculous post, where he/she quoted me in a very stupid way, probably missunderstood me on purpose (or then just didn't really understand) and throwing in some pseudo science which didn't relate to my point at all. Classy again.
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The following is just anecdotal evidence.
I am in a good shape by doing nothing else than this: Just quality runs, usually only 4 per week (shame on me!) and always the same routine on the same hilly loop of just about 9 ½ miles. The first 20-25mins are easy running and a few drills, followed by 6 miles of tempo running and perhaps 5mins warm down. The 6 milers are fast steady runs (averagely 20s per mile slower than 10k race pace) and one of those 6 milers per week is dedicated to a very hard finish. Extra work: 30 miles of mountain biking per week all year long (commuting, very hilly). I have done much more in the past, but it took a few months to get used to this scheme. -
Every single athlete fast enough to lap Clarke at 10000m has done interval training.
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dsrunner wrote:
Every single athlete fast enough to lap Clarke at 10000m has done interval training.
As did the athletes he raced against who could rarely beat him and occasionally lapped at 10,000 meters.. -
THREAD BUMP
After making my own thread I saw this one, and LOOK who it details: Molly Seidel!
Interesting to see that she didn’t really respond to intervals, maybe because she is almost all slow twitch... This would really fit in with the idea that she would strongly excel at the marathon
