Attention PC Police: Stating that a transsexual does not deserve an award DOES NOT EQUATE to intolerance.
Transsexuals are already tolerated. No one thinks they should be forcefully stopped from doing what they do, dumb as we may think it is. You're now asking that they are praised and celebrated by everyone, due to your upbringing where everyone received an award for participating tee ball.
[/quote]
+1
Star wrote:
I don't know if admitting to steroids would really show more courage.
It takes balls to do what he did.
More like it takes removing balls.
lytesout wrote:
...Transsexuals are already tolerated. No one thinks they should be forcefully stopped from doing what they do...
Really? No class of people is subject to more violence and discrimination in jobs and housing than transgender individuals.
OMG the trust fund baby with a conservative opinion. What a shocker there?
Are you really this naive? I mean really? You post stuff on your boards/site with the sole goal of driving traffic.
I mean ESPN is in the business to get ratings..the are an entertainment company. Not a sports company, not a decide who has the most courage company. Some no-name army guy wouldn't driving ratings. A girl who passed away won't drive ratings. Jenner will. It's just theyway entertainment is.
It's their "award" they can do with it as they see fit. If they can shoehorn an explanation of why she should get it. Let them.
But I hardly need ESPN to tell me what real courage is. and I don't need a privileged trust fund baby to tell me what courage is either.
sbeefyk1 wrote:
Truthhh(in my eyes at least) wrote:I'm astonished that you of all people are claiming the moral high ground. I hope your children have gender identity issues so that you can see it's a real thing, not some "liberal conspiracy."
Gender identity issues only arise from parental issues; or in most cases, lackthereof a parent or two. Nobody is born with gender identity issues. They stem from parents telling their kids that they are the opposite sex or not having a parent at home so they try to compromise. The brain is a powerful tool and you can convince yourself of anything. Don't think gender identity issues are natural. There's a ton of other issues behind convincing yourself you are something you are not.
Except for the fact that there are studies showing that parental influence does not determine any of this. There was a documentary on it, I watched it in English class when's e read the book about Matt Shepard being killed in Laramie, Wyoming because he was gay.
sbeefyk1 wrote:
Gender identity issues only arise from parental issues; or in most cases, lackthereof a parent or two. Nobody is born with gender identity issues. They stem from parents telling their kids that they are the opposite sex or not having a parent at home so they try to compromise. The brain is a powerful tool and you can convince yourself of anything. Don't think gender identity issues are natural. There's a ton of other issues behind convincing yourself you are something you are not.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Except that people are born with these conditions and it is natural?????
Here are statistics for inter-sex situations that lead to gender identity issues:
* Not XX and not XY = one in 1,666 births
* Klinefelter (XXY) = one in 1,000 births
* Androgen insensitivity syndrome = one in 13,000 births
* Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome = one in 130,000 births
* Classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia = one in 13,000 births
* Late onset adrenal hyperplasia = one in 66 individuals
* Vaginal agenesis = one in 6,000 births
* Ovotestes = one in 83,000 births
* Idiopathic (no discernable medical cause) = one in 110,000 births
* 5 alpha reductase deficiency = no estimate
* Mixed gonadal dysgenesis = no estimate
* Complete gonadal dysgenesis = one in 150,000 births
* Hypospadias (urethral opening in perineum or along penile shaft) = one in 2,000 births
* Hypospadias (urethral opening between corona and tip of glans penis) = one in 770 births
*****************
Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female = one in 100 births!
Total number of people receiving surgery to “normalize” genital appearance = one or two in 1,000 births!
The 41 percent suicide rate among transgender people is more than 25 times the rate of the general population, which is 1.6 percent. And among trans people ages 18-44, the suicide attempt rate was 45 percent.
NBD THOUGH!
ABC and ESPN may have been in on the fix from the very beginning
rojo wrote:
Really?
http://www.people.com/article/caitlyn-jenner-arthur-ashe-award-connor-cruise-protestI'd have a lot more courage if Jenner came out and stated that he was on steroids at the 1976 Olympics. That to me would be courage.
Or hell to change from a man to woman privately without raking in freaking millions. He'll be raking it in with his reality tv show. Shouldn't they be awarding hiim with the narcissism award?
I don't doubt what he's felt all of these years isn't extremely difficult but this is ridiculous.
Thank you rojo! It's about time the "other side" starts speaking out. Many more are disgusted with his money and attention grabbing journey. They are the silent majority, but the majority are disgusted with it all - the circus it has become. Look back at some past articles. He admitted he was addicted to plastic surgery. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the consequence of taking steroids all those years. Go google it, you know it alls, you'll find out about how right and brave Bruce Jenner's aka Kaitlyn's journey is. His feminine journey started with his steroids usage back in the 70's.
TJR25 wrote:
sbeefyk1 wrote:Gender identity issues only arise from parental issues; or in most cases, lackthereof a parent or two. Nobody is born with gender identity issues. They stem from parents telling their kids that they are the opposite sex or not having a parent at home so they try to compromise. The brain is a powerful tool and you can convince yourself of anything. Don't think gender identity issues are natural. There's a ton of other issues behind convincing yourself you are something you are not.
Except for the fact that there are studies showing that parental influence does not determine any of this. There was a documentary on it, I watched it in English class when's e read the book about Matt Shepard being killed in Laramie, Wyoming because he was gay.
Bullshit. He was killed in a drug deal gone bad by two other gay dudes.
Half the population is wearing dresses and getting fake boobs or butts or whatever. why is it unacceptable for Jenner, just because he was a male, to want to do that too? Jenner is past child bearing age for a woman so that's not really an issue. Hormones whether god given or other will make you a woman. Plenty of women can't bear children for various reasons. It's probably not as perfect as being exposed to hormones in the womb that determine sex but idk seems pretty close, I mean look at her she's not a man now, she's a hot cougar. Money is such an awesome thing to have! She gets to live the perfect life. In younger years she got to do all the cool powerful man athlete stuff and now she can do all the cool rich powerful sexy woman stuff.
Not intentionally hateful wrote:
Larry Dickman wrote:Your lack of knowledge of the transgendered community is . . . well, not shocking. 6 billion people on earth, and you think they're all wired like you?
God, let's hope not.
You act like this topic is easy to understand and that knowledge of it is well communicated. You respond to a post you find intolerant with...well, intolerance. And that's what I actually do hate - people expect everyone to just accept something that is very far from intuitive and not question it or struggle with - you expect us just to accept it. How about transition management folks? And I mean cultural transition (pun not intended). If you want to act all righteous about your progressive views on transgenders, why not have a little tolerance for those of us who have different views and haven't fully grasped the topic yet?
Intolerant people don't get to set the rules for what's tolerant. You are intolerant of a human being because she is transgendered. You won't tolerate her identity or the trans community.
I'm just intolerant of your jackass, bigoted opinion.
Caitlyn Jenner. She.
Wow, that wasn't difficult at all. Didn't harm me one bit.
Advice Columnist 2 wrote:
Larry Dickman wrote:Your lack of knowledge of the transgendered community is . . . well, not shocking. 6 billion people on earth, and you think they're all wired like you?
God, let's hope not.
Wild straw men accusations. The PC police's defense tactics disappoint me.
Not ONE person, in many threads, has answered what it means for a physically male person to 'identify as a woman,' or how it is any more valid than a 'physically white' person identifying as black, or as a different age, etc. Instead, we just get this crap.
So are you saying you don't understand the difference between gender identity and race identity?
This conversation is definitely too complex for you.
You don't even know what courage is, Rojo. You think confronting Galen Rupp is courage. The vast number of mostly ignorant, hatred-filled posts on this thread are the exact reason why Caitlyn Jenner was courageous for publicizing her decisions.
She's in her 60's and decided, fvck this, I'm going to be who I want to be, and I don't care anymore. And a bunch of d!ckholes, yourself included, backlash. It takes courage to take a stand up against trash like yourself. Hopefully, she's the first in a long line of people that have previously been afraid, hidden their true feelings, or committed suicide.
Caitlyn Jenner gives a voice to a group of people that have been afraid to have one because of people like you. You give a voice to a bunch of anonymous bigots. You don't know, and will never know, what courage is.
rojo wrote:
Really?
....
I'd have a lot more courage if Jenner came out and stated that he was on steroids at the 1976 Olympics. That to me would be courage.
Would you have enough courage to publish the Mike Rossi article you promised LetsRun would publish multiple times now?
I know it's already written.
Larry Dickman wrote:
Advice Columnist 2 wrote:Wild straw men accusations. The PC police's defense tactics disappoint me.
Not ONE person, in many threads, has answered what it means for a physically male person to 'identify as a woman,' or how it is any more valid than a 'physically white' person identifying as black, or as a different age, etc. Instead, we just get this crap.
So are you saying you don't understand the difference between gender identity and race identity?
This conversation is definitely too complex for you.
I think that this conversation is actually too complex for you. His point is that the protections and support that transgendered people are receiving these days is completely arbitrary. Why shouldn't wiggers, who identify with black culture, then be allowed to apply for schools and jobs as african-american (or whatever box it is that you check)? Maybe if Asians start to self-identify as white, they'll have an easier time getting into Ivy League schools. Michael Jackson seemed to have issues where he identified with children and wanted to spend time doing kid activities such as sleep-overs. He clearly suffered from age identity, right? Was society right, in your eyes, to shun him for his actions or should we have celebrated him for his individuality and being true to himself?
Questions like these are really just the tip of the iceberg, which is why another poster said that it's a complex issue. My personal opinion is that, if you are born white and 100% male, that's what you are and what you will always be, regardless of what surgeries you may undergo.
wejo wrote:
Wow. I must say I am pretty surprised Rojo posted under his own name.
Caitlyn Jenner is doing a lot for public acceptance for transgender people and people confused of their gender.
I had thought about the steroid issue. Bruce could talk about how he thinks he's a woman,but I'd love to hear him talk about steroid usage in the 1970s. A lot of rumors of him being juiced.
And one thing I am a bit confused with the transgender thing is all the plastic surgery aspect. A poster above criticized society for people talking about Caitlyn's looks, but this whole thing seems to be about changing his look to match who he feels he is in his head. It has to be about looks. Bruce could easily keep being Bruce and say I'm a woman in a man's body, but he is choosing to have radical plastic surgery and take tons of hormones to be someone physically he is/was not. So how is it then wrong to talk about his looks?
The plastic surgery/hormone part is the part where I struggle with in terms of the courageous award. People say, "he is just being who he is" yet he is not, he is radically altering his body via surgery and hormones. A better way of putting it might be to say, "he's being whoever he wants to be" and encouraging us all to do that and maybe that is the courageous part.
Before when Bruce was a male people mocked him for his bad plastic surgery. Now he's upping that by a factor of ten and that gets him the courage award? Now maybe we shouldn't mock Bruce's poor previous plastic surgery or the woman who and goes and gets breast implants in the first place, but altering his physical appearance is all about looks. But if Bruce still was Bruce and just wore woman's clothes I think that look is harder for a lot of people to accept so once again the looks are important, but Bruce is showing that with his decision on plastic surgery.
Bruce has no doubt done a ton for transgender people as people fear what they don't know. Maybe we'll do a Q&A with Joanna Harper. She's an LRCer who went from being a male to a a female and has given me a lot of perspective on these issues and helped us with Caster Semenya stuff.
If you had told me Bruce would become a woman before he'd admit to steroid usage ten years ago I would have looked at you like you are crazy.
Way more sane take on all of this. Thanks for giving me some faith in this site. I'd love to see that Q&A.
Bruce not hot at all. Even with the plastic surgery Bruce is still a 3/10. Not coug worthy at all. Also Bruce still has a penis so im sure it would be so fun to hop in the sack with that, if not hot old ladies with penis' is what your into
xenonscreams wrote:
Her kids are actually overwhelmingly happy that she went through with this and think that she is much better as herself than as the father Bruce Jenner tried to be but was not very good at being. It turns out it's really hard to pretend to be something you're not for your entire life. Probably not harder than finding out you're dying, but pretty damn hard.
Jenner is a man who wants to look like a woman and everyone pretend he is a woman. But, Jenner likes sex with women and will keep his manhood. The only way to describe him is: a transvestite-lesbian.
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