I hope after Krahn does three years in the Ivy League he then grad school transfers to University of New Mexico. Let Coach Joe Franklin get the most out of him.
I hope after Krahn does three years in the Ivy League he then grad school transfers to University of New Mexico. Let Coach Joe Franklin get the most out of him.
D1inourhearts wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to dismiss his entire coaching strategy, however it does seem to help that he coaches the biggest/second-biggest school in MN depending on the year. IDK how it is in other states, but the rich suburb schools (i.e. Stillwater, Edina, Wayzata) seem to have a horde of dedicated, genetically talented runners year after year, while my school of 1500 students struggled to get 5 kids under 17:00. Bill Miles,Scott Christensen, and whats-his-face from Edina are all definitely great coaches in different ways, and I don't know nearly enough about the sport to argue against that. But I can't help but wonder how their supposedly brilliant strategies would hold up at smaller, less talented schools.
I will say that these schools, particularly Wayzata and Edina, have very strong work ethics as a whole compared to other teams. Their summer running programs are followed by virtually all their team, (probably helped by the fact that none of them actually have to work during the summer.)
It does seem like more could be done to protect Krahn, but I guess I don't really know for sure. It is ultimately up to Miles, and he seems to have been successful in the past.
As a product of a "rich suburb school" nice little dig there. Real cute. You assume we all didn't have jobs? I was at one of those schools 10 years ago and we were all either doing lawn care, working on sandwich lines, dishwashers, etc. Maybe it has changed now, and for all I know it could, when I have gone back it is entirely different than when I was there 10 years ago.
But yes- success breeds success. Very well developed summer programs, top down motivation, stop team cohesion, etc. It's all there in those programs.
Also-
1 Jaret Carpenter 12 Wayzata 4:11.43 4:10.89 12
1:02.253 (1:02.253) 2:03.704 (1:01.452) 3:07.593 (1:03.890)
4:10.889 (1:03.296)
2 Hamza Ali 12 MPLS Washburn 4:12.49 4:12.88 10
1:04.466 (1:04.466) 2:08.958 (1:04.492) 3:13.813 (1:04.855)
4:12.878 (59.065)
3 Jack Manderscheid 12 Edina 4:13.00 4:13.36 8
1:04.538 (1:04.538) 2:08.564 (1:04.027) 3:13.447 (1:04.883)
4:13.356 (59.909)
4 Owen Hoeft 12 Hopkins 4:15.15 4:14.43 6
1:04.714 (1:04.714) 2:09.186 (1:04.472) 3:13.729 (1:04.543)
4:14.428 (1:00.699)
5 Eli Krahn 12 Stillwater Area 4:19.95 4:16.38 5
1:04.198 (1:04.198) 2:05.960 (1:01.762) 3:12.277 (1:06.318)
4:16.376 (1:04.100)
Just placed 5th in the state meet. Didn't run well in the 3200. Finished 11th in 951 in a race won in 910. Had a seed time of 916.
Stillwater had many good runners in previous years.
What's happened to the program since then?
ClonedDuck wrote:
D1inourhearts wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to dismiss his entire coaching strategy, however it does seem to help that he coaches the biggest/second-biggest school in MN depending on the year. IDK how it is in other states, but the rich suburb schools (i.e. Stillwater, Edina, Wayzata) seem to have a horde of dedicated, genetically talented runners year after year, while my school of 1500 students struggled to get 5 kids under 17:00. Bill Miles,Scott Christensen, and whats-his-face from Edina are all definitely great coaches in different ways, and I don't know nearly enough about the sport to argue against that. But I can't help but wonder how their supposedly brilliant strategies would hold up at smaller, less talented schools.
I will say that these schools, particularly Wayzata and Edina, have very strong work ethics as a whole compared to other teams. Their summer running programs are followed by virtually all their team, (probably helped by the fact that none of them actually have to work during the summer.)
It does seem like more could be done to protect Krahn, but I guess I don't really know for sure. It is ultimately up to Miles, and he seems to have been successful in the past.
As a product of a "rich suburb school" nice little dig there. Real cute. You assume we all didn't have jobs? I was at one of those schools 10 years ago and we were all either doing lawn care, working on sandwich lines, dishwashers, etc. Maybe it has changed now, and for all I know it could, when I have gone back it is entirely different than when I was there 10 years ago.
But yes- success breeds success. Very well developed summer programs, top down motivation, stop team cohesion, etc. It's all there in those programs.
So you think if Jaime Kirkpatrick moved from edina to coach at Minneapolis South (which probably had the most talent of any school in the state) he would be just as successful?
Edina, Stillwater, wayzata, just have advantages that other schools don't.
So you think if Jaime Kirkpatrick moved from edina to coach at Minneapolis South (which probably had the most talent of any school in the state) he would be just as successful?
Edina, Stillwater, wayzata, just have advantages that other schools don't.
Immediately, no. But long term, who knows. Programs all started from somewhere. But I will say there is no denying the shear numbers game. A school of 4000 kids will obviously be easier to find kids to run under 1630 than a school of 1500. But in regard to teaching work ethic, motivating the kids, teaching them to become students of the sport, etc., that's on the coach.
D1inourhearts wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to dismiss his entire coaching strategy, however it does seem to help that he coaches the biggest/second-biggest school in MN depending on the year. IDK how it is in other states, but the rich suburb schools (i.e. Stillwater, Edina, Wayzata) seem to have a horde of dedicated, genetically talented runners year after year, while my school of 1500 students struggled to get 5 kids under 17:00. Bill Miles,Scott Christensen, and whats-his-face from Edina are all definitely great coaches in different ways, and I don't know nearly enough about the sport to argue against that. But I can't help but wonder how their supposedly brilliant strategies would hold up at smaller, less talented schools.
I will say that these schools, particularly Wayzata and Edina, have very strong work ethics as a whole compared to other teams. Their summer running programs are followed by virtually all their team, (probably helped by the fact that none of them actually have to work during the summer.)
It does seem like more could be done to protect Krahn, but I guess I don't really know for sure. It is ultimately up to Miles, and he seems to have been successful in the past.
I kind of agree with you there. The coaches are definitely above average at those powerhouse schools like Edina and Stillwater. The most important part is the legacy though. My big MN school has had little to no good runners in the entire school history. There is lots of talent like a sub 19 freshman off no summer training, less than 25 mpw, and below average workouts. He doesn't know about the future in running because our school has never had a d1 runner. Stillwater can say look at Blankenship, the future olympian, and if you train you could make it there too. All you need is a legacy and a coach not scared of running the kids more than 25 mpw. I'm not even close to varsity (5:25 mile) and I know I need to run more than we do. I wish went to a place like Stillwater where I could probably reach my high school potential.
Chris Lundstom did what you guys are saying is not really possible. Minneapolis Washburn went from nearly no team to making it to state out of section 6aa in Minnesota. This is probably the best section/region in the country.
They beat Stillwater and many other great schools at state. Really, getting 2nd in section 6aa is better than getting 2nd at state.
I ran in section 6aa a long time ago. There were many coaches of a quality far in excess of what I saw in college and I have no doubt they could have taken their skills just about anywhere and had success. (Larry Anderson, Scott Christiansen, Bill Miles, Jeff Lindlief)
The first step in being a great coach is building a great culture, the leadership of these guys could have taken root in a variety of settings.
Djdjdndndnd wrote:
Chris Lundstom did what you guys are saying is not really possible. Minneapolis Washburn went from nearly no team to making it to state out of section 6aa in Minnesota. This is probably the best section/region in the country.
They beat Stillwater and many other great schools at state. Really, getting 2nd in section 6aa is better than getting 2nd at state.
I ran in section 6aa a long time ago. There were many coaches of a quality far in excess of what I saw in college and I have no doubt they could have taken their skills just about anywhere and had success. (Larry Anderson, Scott Christiansen, Bill Miles, Jeff Lindlief)
The first step in being a great coach is building a great culture, the leadership of these guys could have taken root in a variety of settings.
I agree that section 6AA in Minneapolis could well be the best section in the country.
I don't agree that a good/great coach could reliably walk into one of the non-competitive schools in the Twin Cities and suddenly turn it into a regional power. I don't even think a great coach could get 5 guys under 17 minutes as is routine in Wayzata/Stillwater/etc. If it happens, no offense, it's an enormous stroke of luck.
My school was in the area and had over 100 come out for cross country. Out of those 100, only 3-5 trained year-round and it was not for lack of legacy or motivational examples. Out of those 100 maybe 2-3 had any kind of ambition to even try and qualify to the state level. I'm not sure how Stillwater and other schools get such depth, maybe they have higher numbers or better talent pool - I really don't think it's coaching workouts or any aspect of "team culture" that a coach can be expected to change.
D1inourhearts wrote:
bragging time: I beat him my Sophomore and his 8th grade year in XC.
I don’t think he would take it as an offense
The reason why he felt the need to do so well as a freshman (or the coach felt the need for him to do so) is that:
In 2011 Stillwater XC was 5 deep, had 1 senior in the top 5 AND their 6th and 7th were seniors
So in 2012 if they could find a guy from JV to replace Linner, they were gonna be really good. Krahn did just that.
Unfortunately, their #3 returner (Aarnsss) was running with an injury that year so he had a disappointing season. Not even scoring. But sophomore Hesse-Withbroe stepped up
Then Stillwater became 5-deep again.
It was unfortunate that they couldn’t make it to NXN in 2012. State champ Hall really struggled at NXR