What's going on with UW Men?

Their biggest success may be currently redshirting first year Fred Huxham, he has run a solid 3k indoors (8:0X) and a 13:50 at Payton Jordan. He was very good in hs but his improvement has been incredible

Probably not. Of course this is true at a lot of "major" programs. They are businesses and don't care about the kids beyond what they can do to help them win. So in that sense UW isn't much different than many.

I don't think they are motivated to fix these things either. Again, they get top caliber talent every year. Those that fade off are replaced by the next great class, and the kids are not mature enough to figure out what will happen to them. As long as top talent continues to sign, they really aren't going to be motivated to change.

Finally, nobody really cares about track, so their jobs aren't on the line. What motivation would they have to fix it if they aren't likely to lose their jobs, especially if they don't view the athletes as humans they are responsible to develop, but as assets or liabilities toward their success?

Wouldn't that be the sign of a great coach? Someone who understands these issues and works with them to make his/her athletes better? And isn't that the definition of insanity... to keep doing or not doing something year after year after year even though everyone knows it's crazy... The only constant with these kids in the past 10 or 20 or however many years is Metcalf

Close to insider wrote:

None of this is helped by the fact that there is no soft footing at UW. In and of itself, lots of miles on roads isn't terrible but when runners are fragile from too much drink or not enough food, the terrain can be the straw that gives the camel a stress fracture.

MILES of soft terrain nearby, they just don't use it properly.

Former coach here. I am kind of laughing at you guys, but also your logic.

Washington since Greg has gotten there (12 years Track, 18 xc)

11- Top 25 finishes in on the track for Men

1- National Title (Women XC)

41- Top 25 finishes nationally (Men & Women XC and track only 54 chances)

2- Pac whatever titles

4- Region XC titles

5- Top 10 XC finishes

• Metcalf's distance runners have combined for five NCAA track titles, 16 Pac-12 titles, and 91 All-America awards in 18 years with the program. His athletes hold nineteen of the twenty Washington school records for middle distance and distance events.

He is not perfect, but unless you went to CU, Oregon, Colorado, Wisconsin, Arkansas, FSU, Georgetown, possibly Texas, or Florida; He's done better overall then your school the last 12 years.

So he's a top 10-20 program coach the last 12 years... Yep let's fire him.

I hate all of you wrote:

Former coach here. I am kind of laughing at you guys, but also your logic.

Washington since Greg has gotten there (12 years Track, 18 xc)

11- Top 25 finishes in on the track for Men

1- National Title (Women XC)

41- Top 25 finishes nationally (Men & Women XC and track only 54 chances)

2- Pac whatever titles

4- Region XC titles

5- Top 10 XC finishes

• Metcalf's distance runners have combined for five NCAA track titles, 16 Pac-12 titles, and 91 All-America awards in 18 years with the program. His athletes hold nineteen of the twenty Washington school records for middle distance and distance events.

He is not perfect, but unless you went to CU, Oregon, Colorado, Wisconsin, Arkansas, FSU, Georgetown, possibly Texas, or Florida; He's done better overall then your school the last 12 years.

So he's a top 10-20 program coach the last 12 years... Yep let's fire him.

I don't think anyone's disagreeing that there have been some big successes. In fact, that's kinda the point we're making. There are glimmers of greatness, there are great recruits; why isn't there more consistency? Everyone has a season, maybe two seasons of big performances then they fall off.

With the talent level he's getting, being a top-25 NCAA team year in and year out is not too surprising. They're best finish since '93 was the 2006 team that finally ran a nice pack race and finished 12th. 12th is good, but for a "top tier team" twelfth should not be your high tide mark. Compare that to Portland. They get (or used to get) the second tier recruits out of OR/WA; 4:15/9:15 guys. Julian took his first team to the NCAAs and placed 12th. He's got 4 top 10 finishes.

Again, I'm a fan and always will be. I just struggle to see such continued under-performance.

I have never seen Metcalf's name included in the mix of great coaches but he seems to do just enough to hold his job. He won one of the few NCAA titles in any sport at UW with his women's XC team several years ago. And even as the posters above detailed with all the injured talent this year, the men's team had one of its best finishes ever at Pac-12s at 3rd and both teams destroyed cross state rival WSU in their only dual meet. Plus he is an alum and good enough recruiter that he is able to keep the talent rolling in.

However I think many of the absolute best of the best in-state kids who have other options are wise to him and usually go elsewhere...Look at Berry and Chambers going to Oregon, Joe Hardy to Wisconsin, Jesse Jorgensen to WSU. All grew up within an hour of UW. And while Oregon has always been able to skim the cream from any state, whichever assistant AD Metcalf reports to should take note that tiny Portland (men) and Boise State (women) distance programs are now better than his.

Greg is a recruiter, not a coach.

You can't roll out of bed or step away from the locker rooms and hit the trails. Yes, they have trails "nearby", and no, road running isn't a death sentence in and of itself, but it does add to the problem.

Metcalf has good workouts. They will make a runner fast. Being fast for a season or a few and having a high percentage of athletes improve through their senior years are different things, however. The workouts allow for this. The culture does not.

Unless they paved the gravel edges of the Burke Gilman Trail, Ravenna Park, the median on Ravenna Blvd, the unpaved path outside of Green Lake, Woodland Park itself, and the Arboretum since I left UW, there is no reason anyone would ever have to run even one step anywhere that was paved.

The problem at UW is a culture problem and it predates Greg. I'm disappointed Greg hasn't changed it though. With the talent in WA/OR, UW should regularly be a national contender. UW is also a much better school than UO, so it should be easier to get the more academically inclined recruits.

After this much time, don't expect anything to change. But Greg is doing well enough to keep his job, so expect the same disappointing flashes of brilliance followed by unexplainable falls.

I wonder how many of us lurk here ...?

Not relevant to the UW men but relevant to UW, I've been impressed with the resurrection of Maddie Meyers this year. Great high school sophomore (4:42ish 1600), then 10 seconds slower and looked like she was dealing with an ED the next two years, then didn't do all that much for a few years at UW. 3 (or 4?) years into UW, she has basically come out of nowhere this year to run 4:14 for 1500 and 15:40 for 5000. Wow, good for her. Anybody have the scoop on her? What changed?

Maddie's resurrection doesn't undermine the premise of this thread that Metcalfe underperforms as a coach, but he should get credit when credit is due and she looks like a success for Metcalfe..

The tiny gravel shoulders of Burke are not safe for real running. Plus there are a hell of a lot more steps than "one" to connect all the places you talk about...especially the arb. Everything else we totally agree on though.

seattle guy wrote:

Not relevant to the UW men but relevant to UW, I've been impressed with the resurrection of Maddie Meyers this year. Great high school sophomore (4:42ish 1600), then 10 seconds slower and looked like she was dealing with an ED the next two years, then didn't do all that much for a few years at UW. 3 (or 4?) years into UW, she has basically come out of nowhere this year to run 4:14 for 1500 and 15:40 for 5000. Wow, good for her. Anybody have the scoop on her? What changed?

Maddie's resurrection doesn't undermine the premise of this thread that Metcalfe underperforms as a coach, but he should get credit when credit is due and she looks like a success for Metcalfe..

Completely agree. Probably the biggest "comeback" story in UW history, even more than Megan Goethals

This is really not a new story. There are lots of cases where girls run great times as adolescent high school freshmen and sophomores, only to have maturity change their bodies, resulting in going backwards for a few years. Now that Maddie is about finished with college she is a mature adult and has had 4 or 5 years to adjust. When these young women stick with it, they can adjust and get comfortable with a mature body and once again tap into the athletic talent that they left behind. The Megan Goethals story is really quite a different story than Myers'--and not always a pretty one.

Close to insider wrote:

The tiny gravel shoulders of Burke are not safe for real running. Plus there are a hell of a lot more steps than "one" to connect all the places you talk about...especially the arb. Everything else we totally agree on though.

They definitely are safe for running from where the Burke connects to UW to Ravenna Park. Not like a mile out and a mile back of your daily run on pavement is going to ruin your college career anyways

Track team just finished 3rd at Pac-12 track meet and even had a few of their top distance point contributors have an off day/not score. Smells like success to me. Seems like people just love to emphasize any negative they can find when there are just as many positives.

Metcalf's men have had a hell of a year. 2 All-Americans xc, 3 new school records in the distance events, and Redshirt Freshman Huxham's improvement behind the scenes. (13:50).

Yup, the Husky men finished third in the Pac 12, with most of their points coming from one event, the Pole Vault. Beyond that, they had two or three point makers--not exactly the stuff of a good track program. When a school as large as Washington calls this their year of success, something is wrong.

There's a part of me that thinks there might be too much pressure (either peer based or self imposed) with their distance runners to perform well indoors that they forget about the big picture, and that is the outdoor season. I believe that Joan Samuelson once said that there's no way distance runners at that age (18-23) can perform well consistently for 12 quarters (eight semesters) with the pressures of school along with XC, indoor & outdoor track and that you need to sacrifice short term success to have success in the long run.

As far as Amy-Eloise Neale, I believe that she got hurt in the steeple finals at world juniors last summer and is still recovering...