Brady GUILTY in Inflategate

Deflating is not cheating unless the pressure is brought below the NFL's standard. So someone being called "the deflator" is not enough to condemn.

I completely agree that cheating is cheating. What is unfortunate is the amount of WEIGHT being put on this. I get that this is what the media does but there seems to be such little objective reasoning going on (including the Wells report). If you hate Brady already then he is guilty and tarnished forever (you probably already called him tarnished b/c of the tuck rule, or spygate) and if you love him you look the other way. Who here has changed their mind about the guy?

It blows my mind that the Seahawks lead the league in PED violations and no one talks about why they've been near dominant the past 5 years. I am not a pats fan (though I tremendously respect and value Brady's work ethic) but from my standpoint he should be fined and suspended a game or two and we should move on. If you call his legacy tarnished then you required to do the same for guys like Jerry Rice, who have openly admitted they routinely broke the rules during their careers.

old guy 69 wrote:

Everybody lies. What world do you live in?

Why hold Brady to a higher standard than every politician in this country?

Why don't they just allow all quarterbacks to have the ball inflated to their liking?

It's not like a baseball. It makes sense that baseballs must all be the same size, weight etc.Talking baseball, all batters aren't required to use the same bat.

People lie. That's a fact.

How many other QB's alter the ball? Probably a lot.

Wait! Is the above a lie? How can I know you are telling the truth? Or am I lying about not really knowing? Is anything true? If I say nothing is true then I am stating a truism...confused :(

old guy 69 wrote:

Everybody lies. What world do you live in?

Why hold Brady to a higher standard than every politician in this country?

Why don't they just allow all quarterbacks to have the ball inflated to their liking?

It's not like a baseball. It makes sense that baseballs must all be the same size, weight etc.Talking baseball, all batters aren't required to use the same bat.

People lie. That's a fact.

How many other QB's alter the ball? Probably a lot.

So you are saying:

1) It is OK to cheat?

and/or

2) The NFL should have different rules therefore it is not really cheating to circumvent this one?

WTF, mate?

fartlekpas wrote:

If you call his legacy tarnished then you required to do the same for guys like Jerry Rice, who have openly admitted they routinely broke the rules during their careers.

Yes, Jerry Rice's legacy is tarnished. As is Brady's. Both cheaters, as is anyone caught using PEDs.

So should the Seahawks title from 2014 have an asterisk? Or the Saints Super Title in 2010?

I don't think there was cheating in terms of the game being played on the field. My understanding is that the refs were over-inflating the balls way above the legal limit to 16 psi, and Brady wanted his balls to be at 12.5 psi (the lower limit). His "probable" infraction, since there is no proof, is that he probably had the attendant deflate the balls after the refs over-inflated them. He probably skirted the rules, not to cheat, but to get the balls back to a legal level he preferred. The weather is responsible for the under-the-limit deflation. If the Colts balls were also inflated to 16 psi by the refs, and then fell within legal limits of 12.5-13.5 during the game, this shows the weather had an effect. I wouldn't call this cheating on Brady's part in terms of the game on the field, but just a procedural rules infraction. It doesn't diminish his legacy or accomplishments. The Pats and Brady didn't win that AFLC game or the SB because of under-inflated balls.

Cheating is an intentional violation of the rules to gain an unfair advantage. I don't think there's clear evidence that that happened. I do think that, knowing this would be the reaction, Brady severely underplayed his knowledge of who the ball boys were. But those text messages don't indicate or even imply that Brady asked for the level of deflation to be below league minimum, just that more deflated than not was a clear preference. What's more, the ball boys seemed more inclined to pump the balls up than down. And if this was systematic and has been going on for years, then why has NO other team OR referee noticed this until now? This wasn't the first time since 2007 that Brady threw an interception, and hopefully this ins't the first time since 2007 that someone decided to test the balls. If it is, then that proves me wrong, but also kind of trivializes this whole thing.

I get it. But I think we're reading that texts from a different lens. I think you're reading it as a serious coverup, with very bright people in important positions trying to use leverage to cut heavy deals. I'm reading it as a pair of jock ball boys talking shit over their iPhones and imagining themselves as more important than they are.

I'll say it again, the wording IS hazy. Is there anything, anywhere in the text messages citing a specific ball pressure, or going below league minimum? Anything that suggested that Brady wanted this person's activities kept quiet until this became a media circus in the first place? I don't see any.

jewbacca wrote:

Also, keep in mind the phrase "more probable than not" is the wording used to determine burden of proof, which is all a court needs to convict on most criminal offenses. Don't just brush off the wording as "hazy," as the only hazy thing here is Pats fans' version of reality.

"More probably than not" is never the burden of proof on any criminal offense.

Moreover, the conclusion is that Brady "generally" knew of the deflation not that he directed it or specifically knew of it.

Mundus Vult wrote:

jewbacca wrote:

Also, keep in mind the phrase "more probable than not" is the wording used to determine burden of proof, which is all a court needs to convict on most criminal offenses. Don't just brush off the wording as "hazy," as the only hazy thing here is Pats fans' version of reality.

"More probably than not" is never the burden of proof on any criminal offense.

Moreover, the conclusion is that Brady "generally" knew of the deflation not that he directed it or specifically knew of it.

But you were SOOOOO certain months ago that there was absolutely no foul play by the Patriots organization. Can't you at least admit you were wrong and just make the new point that you don't care?

whambulance wrote:

But you were SOOOOO certain months ago that there was absolutely no foul play by the Patriots organization. Can't you at least admit you were wrong and just make the new point that you don't care?

Fair enough. I was wrong. I think I offered a bet to someone. Glad they didn't take me up on it.

jewbacca wrote:

fartlekpas wrote:

If you call his legacy tarnished then you required to do the same for guys like Jerry Rice, who have openly admitted they routinely broke the rules during their careers.

Yes, Jerry Rice's legacy is tarnished. As is Brady's. Both cheaters, as is anyone caught using PEDs.

So you're not a cheater, if you don't get caught? Got it.

Mundus Vult wrote:

whambulance wrote:

But you were SOOOOO certain months ago that there was absolutely no foul play by the Patriots organization. Can't you at least admit you were wrong and just make the new point that you don't care?

Fair enough. I was wrong. I think I offered a bet to someone. Glad they didn't take me up on it.

Thanks. Good on you.

Ummm, why is no one talking about this?

I say they should tear down Brady's statue and make him retire in disgrace. And he should have to give Gisele back too. He did not earn her.

holyshnykes wrote:

Looks like someone DID look into it. After Brady helped get the rule changed in 2007 (to allow teams to be in charge of their own balls) they basically stopped fumbling compared to any other team. Could they have been cheating since 2007?

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Wow! Thanks for posting this. Whoever is doling out punishment for Brady should really see this. It's only circumstantial, but still, wow!

It shows that Tom is a team player. Looking out for his running backs. A lesser person would not put himself on the line like that for his team mates. Also, he sleeps with Gisele.

fisky wrote:

holyshnykes wrote:

Looks like someone DID look into it. After Brady helped get the rule changed in 2007 (to allow teams to be in charge of their own balls) they basically stopped fumbling compared to any other team. Could they have been cheating since 2007?

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Wow! Thanks for posting this. Whoever is doling out punishment for Brady should really see this. It's only circumstantial, but still, wow!

since this rule change every team is allowed to handle their balls (heh), meaning if brady and the pats prefer them a little softer, coolbeans. If the refs WHO HANDLE THE FOOTBALL EVERY SINGLE DOWN OF EVERY SINGLE PLAY don't find the footballs to be at an illegal psi, then it's on them. I'm not a pats fan, but I can admit this has been blown so completely out of proportion its rediculous. Everyone hates the team thats good year after year after year in every sport. calling patriots "cheaters" is a cop out for having no other real good reason for hating them other than them consistently being a top team since 2001. Yeah, bellicheck is easy to hate, but that's not enough. All it takes is one scandal to put a label on a team

and before you discredit my statement by saying how big of a deal spygate was, let me stop you there. the patriots were caught video taping the other teams coaching signals from the wrong angle-the year the rule was put in place-in the first game of the season-against the worst team in the nfl-and went on to win the super bowl without doing it since being "caught"

PLEASE PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES

Mundus Vult wrote:

whambulance wrote:

But you were SOOOOO certain months ago that there was absolutely no foul play by the Patriots organization. Can't you at least admit you were wrong and just make the new point that you don't care?

Fair enough. I was wrong. I think I offered a bet to someone. Glad they didn't take me up on it.

Yeah, that was me. It was a ridiculous bet then and I'm sure as hell glad I didn't take you up on it. Crazy, rabid New England fans betting a year's salary over whether some dude they've never bet is cheating.

You're blinded by hero worship.