HM Predictor Workout?

3x2 mile is a good HM indicator workout for me personally. Since you still have two weeks, you should try 2x5k this week, same pace. You're mileage is a tad low, especially for a HM, and my experience is that "indicator" workouts don't predict as well for low mileage runners. I'd say 1:25 would be good race and 1:30 should be attainable.

Thanks. 35mpw is definitely a little low. I've had a few weeks in the 45-50 range recently. 35 is just an average over the last few months. 2x5k is a good idea. Not sure I'll do that, though, because I ran a trail 10k this weekend with tons of vertical, and the legs are a little tender. Want to have fresh legs for the HM. Thanks again.

Personally I would do that WO at 10mi pace or faster for that kind of rest and (as best as I can tell) effort, so I would encourage you not to try to start at 6:35 pace. Especially for your first HM with relatively low mileage, you have to make sure you're not going out too quick. I'd encourage starting out at 1:30 pace and rolling from there. Agreed that "indicator workouts" don't hold as much weight for lower mileage guys but I imagine you're in sub-1:30 shape. Good luck.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. There are 2 significant (~150ft) hills in the first 5 miles. As of right now, I think I'll plan to stick with the 1:30 pace group until those hills are done, then I'll push after that. If I can do 1:30 pace for the first 5, then 1:25 pace for the last 8, that should put me at 1:27 or 1:28, which I would be happy with.

As for indicator workouts,

I prefer 4 x 2 miles w/ 90 sec rest as opposed to 3 x 2 miles

5-6 mile TT is the best indicator.

Yeah, Ryan Vail apparently does that workout. It's mentioned here:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5732683

I think 4x2miles probably straddles the line in terms of intensity, and it would be a little too much for many people. I think the 3x2 is still tough, but probably a safer bet than 4x2. But I agree that if you're going to do 3x2, you should cut down the rest time a bit.

I've never understood the concept of an indicator workout.

I could go out and do 4 x 2 miles at 6:00 pace, but there is no way I could do a half marathon at 6:00 pace.

It would basically be like a race.

So probably you're supposed to take a little off in an indicator workout. But how much? The whole thing makes little sense to me.

The only indicator workout that makes any sense to me is a previous race - if you get in a 100% race at 5k or 10k you can pretty much figure what you will do for HM.

Workouts? Too much gray area between what is a race effort and what is a workout.

Indicator workouts are useful not so much in the forecasting sense, as in simulating the race feel. Even then, 6:00 pace in a workout will probably feel what 5:45 pace will feel like in a race.

Its a great predictor as long as you can have a rest every couple of miles in the 1/2

Try doing some training where you don't feel good at the end and do more mileage and more races

You're lucky if hit sub-1:35.

agip wrote:

I've never understood the concept of an indicator workout.

I could go out and do 4 x 2 miles at 6:00 pace, but there is no way I could do a half marathon at 6:00 pace.

It would basically be like a race.

So probably you're supposed to take a little off in an indicator workout. But how much? The whole thing makes little sense to me.

The only indicator workout that makes any sense to me is a previous race - if you get in a 100% race at 5k or 10k you can pretty much figure what you will do for HM.

Workouts? Too much gray area between what is a race effort and what is a workout.

Depending on the rest you take, you probably could but you sound like a weak racer.

I hit my goal HM on 40 mpw while training for a marathon.

I was doing Yasso's, which are 800 reps with a jog lap between. If you can do 8 sets of 800 at what would be your marathon time in minutes then you can run that same time (divided by 2) for the half.

IOW: If you are shooting for a 90 minute half then run 8 sets of 800 at 3:00 each. If you can do that then (even on only 35 mpw) you will be very close to that same time/2 for a HM.

crikey ur weak wrote:

agip wrote:

I've never understood the concept of an indicator workout.

I could go out and do 4 x 2 miles at 6:00 pace, but there is no way I could do a half marathon at 6:00 pace.

It would basically be like a race.

So probably you're supposed to take a little off in an indicator workout. But how much? The whole thing makes little sense to me.

The only indicator workout that makes any sense to me is a previous race - if you get in a 100% race at 5k or 10k you can pretty much figure what you will do for HM.

Workouts? Too much gray area between what is a race effort and what is a workout.

Depending on the rest you take, you probably could but you sound like a weak racer.

explain your logic.

Here's mine:

In a 9 mile race, I could run 6:00 pace the whole way.

So doing 4 x 2 miles WITH A REST at that pace is not that hard. It's only 8 miles and I get a freaking rest.

So why does doing 4 x 2 with a rest tell me anything about how fast I can run 13.1 miles with no rest?

Plus I could race the 4 x 2 or I could go regular workout pace...the only real test is a race.

MarathonMind wrote:

I hit my goal HM on 40 mpw while training for a marathon.

I was doing Yasso's, which are 800 reps with a jog lap between. If you can do 8 sets of 800 at what would be your marathon time in minutes then you can run that same time (divided by 2) for the half.

IOW: If you are shooting for a 90 minute half then run 8 sets of 800 at 3:00 each. If you can do that then (even on only 35 mpw) you will be very close to that same time/2 for a HM.

Yasso 800's are a joke as a predictor

agip wrote:

crikey ur weak wrote:

Depending on the rest you take, you probably could but you sound like a weak racer.

explain your logic.

Here's mine:

In a 9 mile race, I could run 6:00 pace the whole way.

So doing 4 x 2 miles WITH A REST at that pace is not that hard. It's only 8 miles and I get a freaking rest.

So why does doing 4 x 2 with a rest tell me anything about how fast I can run 13.1 miles with no rest?

Plus I could race the 4 x 2 or I could go regular workout pace...the only real test is a race.

If you can run 9 at that pace you can run a half at that pace. If you're not weak that is.

agip, training is not the same as racing. Racing is supposed to bring out a little extra in you.

For me, 3x2M w/400j (about 2:30) is more like a 10k pace workout, so I'd think that 6:45-50 pace would be closer to your HM pace. 7 is about 1:32, 6 is 1:18:37, so not a bad idea this time out to start with the 1:30 group for five or six miles and then push on ahead if you are feeling good.

gcvgc wrote:

agip, training is not the same as racing. Racing is supposed to bring out a little extra in you.

well sure

but

that gray area, that space between a race and a hard workout is not inviolable. When I feel great in a workout I'll be near race level effort. I'm sure most runners get that. The whole 'run to the barn' thing is race effort in a workout.

Indicator workouts suggest you will not break into that gray area - how the heck you are supposed to monitor that gap exactly during the workout, I don't know.

Whereas a race is a race - 100% effort. Much better predictor.