Sorry I even started this thread. Just thought it was pretty much a given that Maffetone wasn't the sharpest knife in the kitchen when it came to running/training analysis. Nice to see SC sticking to his guns on this one.BTW: I LOVE "Running For The Hanson's"! One of the better books on the day-to-days of of elite runners I've come across.And no...I'm not SC's agent. Just a fan.
less ranting more research wrote:
Dude, please spend more time researching a method before you attack it, if you want any credibility. So many things you said in your video make it clear that you have a poor, and only partial understanding of what Maffetone recommends. First of many, he does recommend faster anaerobic training. Educate yourself please.
Dude, please educate us with your vast knowledge of the Maffetone BS. Give a few quotes from the book and examples that show his method is better for training than guys like Daniels.
[quote]really
Just to things i can think of
1) this 30 minute 10 km runner probably was mark allen who did this test in the form of a few times a mile with rest? This tends to give faster mile times at a low heart rate to.
Also to note is that if it was mark allen he was ? a triathlete who rarely used speed work and was training for an 8 hour event. So his 10 km time might not have been his true track fitness.
So if that is the case Maffetone might still be right. But you are right to that for a competitive distance runner that doesn't make sense.
2) If you listen to the man he says that if your times tend to stay at the same level after improving a while it might be time to work faster then MAF.
Also he says when you get very fit you can alternate days or do this in the form of interval work. Again not to unreasonable. What me means is that you need to work a lot at that heart rate or below in order to build a base. And that running over it might ruin your base training. He also says that this rule of 180 - age is a general rule. when he tested people he looked at many things.
And yes i think some of it can be applied to professional runners. And i think runners like Priscilla Welch used this in order to perform at world class level at older age.
Sage wants to feel important so he always chimes in to keep the thread alive. He will always be struggling for recognition and only receiving it from those that don't know any better. Ask old teammates what they think of Sage.
Who cares what old teammates think of Sage. He's more successful at what he's doing than 90+ percent of the Hanson's group are at road racing. If I were a 2:17 marathoner who could make a living doing what he's doing, I'd do the same. What's the point of finishing 20th at another major when a person has the ability to do very well on the ultra scene? I wouldn't give two craps what "real runners" have to say about the ultra scene, either. I used to be one of those people, then I grew up. If a man or woman wants to run ultras, let them run ultras.
A little less venom... wrote:
Who cares what old teammates think of Sage. He's more successful at what he's doing than 90+ percent of the Hanson's group are at road racing. If I were a 2:17 marathoner who could make a living doing what he's doing, I'd do the same. What's the point of finishing 20th at another major when a person has the ability to do very well on the ultra scene? I wouldn't give two craps what "real runners" have to say about the ultra scene, either. I used to be one of those people, then I grew up. If a man or woman wants to run ultras, let them run ultras.
It appears you missed his point. It's not what you do, it's who you are.
irmissed his point wrote:
A little less venom... wrote:Who cares what old teammates think of Sage. He's more successful at what he's doing than 90+ percent of the Hanson's group are at road racing. If I were a 2:17 marathoner who could make a living doing what he's doing, I'd do the same. What's the point of finishing 20th at another major when a person has the ability to do very well on the ultra scene? I wouldn't give two craps what "real runners" have to say about the ultra scene, either. I used to be one of those people, then I grew up. If a man or woman wants to run ultras, let them run ultras.
It appears you missed his point. It's not what you do, it's who you are.
Fair enough. So who are you?
Leirbag wrote:
I agree with gmc. Was just mentioning to my wife how he is on his own, a professional runner, dedicating his life to his running, living the dream, at altitude, and is 4+ min away from his personal best over the Marathon as a self-coached athlete. Not the best testament. He dedicated a lot of training to the Marathon. It's not that easy. 2:18 is no joke. Ask Max King. It is a legitimate effort. Right now the only MUTs that will be at the Trials are the following Elites of the Elites. There are many pretenders (Canaday, Varner, Tollefson, etc.) -
Max King, 2:17:32
David Laney, 2:17:02
Joe Gray, 1:03:42
Andy Wacker, 1:03:49
And what did your wife say to that?
Oh, hi there Phil!
A little less venom... wrote:
Who cares what old teammates think of Sage. He's more successful at what he's doing than 90+ percent of the Hanson's group are at road racing. If I were a 2:17 marathoner who could make a living doing what he's doing, I'd do the same. What's the point of finishing 20th at another major when a person has the ability to do very well on the ultra scene? I wouldn't give two craps what "real runners" have to say about the ultra scene, either. I used to be one of those people, then I grew up. If a man or woman wants to run ultras, let them run ultras.
You're going to see more national class runners making the switch to trails.
Tike wrote:
Just to things i can think of
1) this 30 minute 10 km runner probably was mark allen who did this test in the form of a few times a mile with rest? This tends to give faster mile times at a low heart rate to.
Also to note is that if it was mark allen he was ? a triathlete who rarely used speed work and was training for an 8 hour event. So his 10 km time might not have been his true track fitness.
So if that is the case Maffetone might still be right. But you are right to that for a competitive distance runner that doesn't make sense.
2) If you listen to the man he says that if your times tend to stay at the same level after improving a while it might be time to work faster then MAF.
Also he says when you get very fit you can alternate days or do this in the form of interval work. Again not to unreasonable. What me means is that you need to work a lot at that heart rate or below in order to build a base. And that running over it might ruin your base training. He also says that this rule of 180 - age is a general rule. when he tested people he looked at many things.
And yes i think some of it can be applied to professional runners. And i think runners like Priscilla Welch used this in order to perform at world class level at older age.
The point Sage was making is that heart rates vary enormously from one runner to another.