ventolin^3 wrote:
coghlan has been on record as saying he ran indoors for times & outdoors to win
i have little doubt he was capable of 3'46/3'47 outdoors in his 3'49iwr shape but still not quick enough to win sprint finishes outdoors v peak coe/ovett/scott
he kept trying same ole tack of trying to outkick these guys which was never going to happen at their peaks
his mistake was in not trying to find an outdoor meet early '83 set up as a wr attempt just for him & in perfect conditions, he shouda got mile &/or 1500 wrs
as for not being fast miler outdoors, that is nonsense :
in '75 as a 22y ole he ran 3'53 european record behind bayi
a time ovett didn't beat in those glory years of '77/'78 but only later
I reread my post and don't see where I said he was "not (a) fast miler outdoors"? I don't feel that way, so I would not have said it.
I said very specifically that he "ran a lot of 3:52-53-54 miles", which he did:
(in chrono order) -
3:56.2 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Pittsburgh 10.05.1975
3:53.3 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 Kingston 17.05.1975
3:59.3 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Williamsburg 24.05.1975
3:57.78 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 London 04.07.1975
3:57.54 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 4 Philadelphia 04.08.1976
3:55.07 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 Stockholm 09.08.1976
3:59.85 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 Berlin 20.08.1976
3:59.8 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Limerick 02.06.1977
3:53.4 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Dublin 11.07.1977
3:59.7 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 5 Gateshead 30.07.1977
3:57.4 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Auckland 28.01.1978
3:56.91 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Westwood 06.05.1979
3:56.34 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Philadelphia 12.05.1979
3:54.8 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Cork 21.06.1979
3:52.88 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Philadelphia 30.06.1979
3:56.24 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Stockholm 03.07.1979
3:52.45 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 4 Oslo 17.07.1979
3:55.2 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Westwood 11.05.1980
3:56.3 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Cork 24.06.1980
3:58.6 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 8r1 Nice 17.08.1980
3:55.74 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 9 London 25.08.1980
3:54.94 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 Westwood 10.05.1981
3:58.57 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 6 Villanova 30.05.1981
3:52.11 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Cork 23.06.1981
3:56.50 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 9 Oslo 11.07.1981
3:58.47 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 7 Dublin 14.07.1981
3:57.8 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Tullyleash 17.08.1981
3:53.30 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 8 Bruxelles 28.08.1981
3:56.46 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 San José 28.05.1983
3:52.52 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Berkeley 12.06.1983
3:51.59 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 5 Oslo 09.07.1983
3:53.48 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Belfield 11.07.1983
3:57.61 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 4 London 23.07.1983
3:56.88 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 4 Villanova 14.06.1986
3:59.80 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Holmdel 29.07.1987
This covers 13 yrs inclusive, and it is only the years that he broke 4:00 outdoors. I don't see where he was running "outdoors to win"? Like I said, INDOORS nobody was better, outdoors he was consistently beaten by Liquori, Walker, Ovett, Scott, Cram, Wessinghage, Maree, Spivey, Wessinghage, even Todd Harbour, Jose Luis Gonzales and John Robson, etc.
This is not to disparage Coghlan, whom I consider one of the great milers of the 70s and 80s, but looking over his palmarés, I am surprised he was even able to place 4th in two Olympics and 2nd in the '78 Euro Champs.
In the big races he got beat by the same people, in the same way, in the same order, consistently.
Objectively, his best year seems to be 1979, where he won 3 small races and placed 2nd, 4th in the big ones, and lo and behold, ran 3:52.
His most productive year seems to be 1981, where he won two small races in Ireland, and placed 6th, 9th, 7th, and 8th in the big races, and lo and behold, ran 3:52.
Another good yr was 1983, where he ran 3:52, 3:51, and 3:53, but was 5th in Oslo and 4th in London.
His 1500m marks are much less prodigious:
(all marks under 3:38.00) -
3:37.01 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Philadelphia 05.06.1976
3:37.05 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Helsinki 11.08.1976
3:36.57 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Praha 03.09.1978
I have no idea how you figure he could have run a WR in 1983 or any other year. He was actually in TWO WR races. His best shot was in 1975 when he placed third 2.3 seconds off Bayi's 3:51.0 short-lived WR. By the end of the season he was 3.9 secs adrift of the WR. He was in Seb Coe's 1981 WR of 3:47.33 ... he placed 8th and 5.97 seconds behind. He improved that season to 3:51.59, but was still 4.26 seconds adrift of the contemporary WR.
I am not going to malign your calculator like I normally do, I just don't see where you get an indication of a 3:47 WR for Coghlan in 1983? He ran his best mile in his life (probably his best mark at any distance) at Oslo in 3:51.59 ... and got 5th (to Steve Scott, Jim Spivey, José Luis Gonzáles, and Jose Marajo).
He placed a slow 3:57.61 in London and placed 4th (to Steve Scott, Sebastian Coe, and Graham Williamson) when Scott won in 3:51.56 and Coe was 3:52.93. So he was SIX seconds behind TWO guys who actually HAD RUN 3:47 at that point. So that is SIX people who beat him just that year.
I rarely agree with your opinions, but I usually can see what you base them on. In this case I just don't see where you got any of this notion from? Unless you believe that everyone is 5 seconds better than what they showed in a 13 year career, I just don't get it?