I s Eamonn Coghlan one of the most underrated runners of all-time?

Challenger wrote:

It remained the only sub-3:50 up until Daniel Komon ran 3:48 outdoors in 2007 and to this day, only 4 sub-3:50 performances have happened on US soil.

El Guerrouj ran 3:49 in 2001.

reader of the forums wrote:

Challenger wrote:

It remained the only sub-3:50 up until Daniel Komon ran 3:48 outdoors in 2007 and to this day, only 4 sub-3:50 performances have happened on US soil.

El Guerrouj ran 3:49 in 2001.

Whoops, meant fastest.

That Gold was Hugh! Proved he could do it outdoors and at a longer distance to boot! Very nice career.

Eamonn was a great runner. I was there to witness his indoor WR in NJ back in 83. He was one of my running heros growing up.

I had an unusual opportunity to meet him a few years back on a flight from Newark to Dublin. He sat in the seat next to me. As we have numerous friends from running, and had lots to talk about on that flight.

Approaching Dublin, he gave me his card, Senator Eamonn Cochlan and invited my wife and I to visit him at his office in Lienstar House, the Irish government building.

We met him there after we got a tour of the building. We sat in the senate lounge cheating about running, mutual friends and politics.

We both came out of this experience with a tremendous high. Imagine that. A great coincidence, but one that had a tremendous impact on us.

Eamon is by far not only a great runner, but more importantly a great human being. It was a great fortune indeed.

He was known as "The Chairman of the Boards" for his indoor success at Millrose and elsewhere. He was hardly underrated.

No....He was great, and I believe this was well recognized by track fans.

He was very good. I don't think underrated, If anything probably overrated during his day due to his popularity among American fans when the Indoor circuit was big.

However I don't recall a runner other than Bill Rodgers that was as likeable and popular on a large scale. Both nice guys that won a lot of races and very humble.

Marty Liquori was better than Coghlan, If anything he is one of the most underrated runners,

Just wanted to add that Coghlan's 3:49 was run at the Meadowlands 10 laps to the mile board track.

No, he made the cover of Sports Illustrated for his indoor running skills. If anything, he was OVERRATED, getting a lot of pub for a guy who never world ranked higher than 6th for 1500. Indoors, he was a superb tactician with sharp elbows and great acceleration who benefited from lesser competition. Outdoors, he was just outclassed by milers like Walker, Bayi, Coe, Ovett, Scott, to name a few. Not his fault, the competition was just too strong in his day.

George Atlas wrote:

He was very good. I don't think underrated, If anything probably overrated during his day due to his popularity among American fans when the Indoor circuit was big.

However I don't recall a runner other than Bill Rodgers that was as likeable and popular on a large scale. Both nice guys that won a lot of races and very humble.

Marty Liquori was better than Coghlan, If anything he is one of the most underrated runners,

This is right ^.

He was 4th in two Olympics, but they were two boycotted Olympics. I don't recall what he ran in the European Championships ... looks like he was 2nd in 1978.

Hard to believe that he only has a 3:36.57 to his name in his specialty. Also, his 5k best was 13:19. By 1980-1985 the US had 10 people active that were that fast.

Indoors, nobody was better ...

"Coghlan was nicknamed "The Chairman of the Boards" because of his success on indoor tracks. He won 52 of his 70 races at 1500 m and 1 Mile from 1974 to 1987. He set the world record for the indoor mile run with a time of 3.52.6 at the San Diego Sports Arena[4] in San Diego in 1979. He lowered this to 3:50.6 in 1981 and then bettered it to 3:49.78 in 1983 at New Jersey's Meadowlands Arena indoor arena. His record stood until 1997 when it was broken by Morocco's Hicham El Guerrouj in a time of 3:48.45. It is still the second fastest indoor mile of all time and is still, more than 30 years on, a European record."

Outdoors, Walker, Bayi, Ovett, Coe, Cram, ... and many others ... all better. He was very lucky to win that WC title before Aouita started dominating the 5k for the next 7 years.

Malmo says that because of his small stature, he could run close to the rail in those 8-10-11 laps to the mile races, closer than his competitors (Walker, Scott, Flynn were all tall and 160lbs) and that his advantage was amplified the more laps he ran. I buy that as he ran a LOT of 3:52-53-54 miles outdoors, whereas his main comp ran a lot of 3:48-3:52s but still lost to him indoors.

coghlan has been on record as saying he ran indoors for times & outdoors to win

i have little doubt he was capable of 3'46/3'47 outdoors in his 3'49iwr shape but still not quick enough to win sprint finishes outdoors v peak coe/ovett/scott

he kept trying same ole tack of trying to outkick these guys which was never going to happen at their peaks

his mistake was in not trying to find an outdoor meet early '83 set up as a wr attempt just for him & in perfect conditions, he shouda got mile &/or 1500 wrs

as for not being fast miler outdoors, that is nonsense :

in '75 as a 22y ole he ran 3'53 european record behind bayi

a time ovett didn't beat in those glory years of '77/'78 but only later

ventolin^3 wrote:a time ovett didn't beat in those glory years of '77/'78 but only later

correction :

ovett - '77 : 3'54.6

ovett - '78 : 3'52.8

ovett ran slightly faster mile than coghlan's then pb in '78

He was awesome, well nigh unbeatable, indoors.

He was not particularly dominant outdoors.

Most T&F fans and competitors consider outdoors the real season for T&F. So it is not at all surprising, nor necessarily an injustice, if he is not considered so highly.

A great miler from an era of great milers. He might be a little undiscovered by younger fans these days, but he was a marquee runner on the indoor circuit for many years. Outdoors, he had the misfortune of overlapping first Walker/Bayi and then Ovett/Coe/Cram in the 1500/mile.

If you want REALLY under-rated milers of that era, look at Jim Spivey or Craig Masback ... those guys were FAST and nobody even says their names anymore.

But for most under-rated US runner of all time, I say Christian Soratos... joking! Joking! Mark Nenow gets my vote.

Steve on a cell in Brooklyn wrote:

Just wanted to add that Coghlan's 3:49 was run at the Meadowlands 10 laps to the mile board track.

And Eamonn was also the first 40+ miler to run a sub-4 -- 21 years ago. Lagat become the second the other night at the Armory.

Clearly one of the best indoor runners ever, back when indoor took unique skills due to the tight tracks. Outdoors, respectable but not quite top tier, '83 5k gold notwithstanding.

I would have loved to see him versus Liquori race in the Garden, each at their peaks. Both were master indoor tacticians.

ventolin^3 wrote:

coghlan has been on record as saying he ran indoors for times & outdoors to win

i have little doubt he was capable of 3'46/3'47 outdoors in his 3'49iwr shape but still not quick enough to win sprint finishes outdoors v peak coe/ovett/scott

he kept trying same ole tack of trying to outkick these guys which was never going to happen at their peaks

his mistake was in not trying to find an outdoor meet early '83 set up as a wr attempt just for him & in perfect conditions, he shouda got mile &/or 1500 wrs

as for not being fast miler outdoors, that is nonsense :

in '75 as a 22y ole he ran 3'53 european record behind bayi

a time ovett didn't beat in those glory years of '77/'78 but only later

I reread my post and don't see where I said he was "not (a) fast miler outdoors"? I don't feel that way, so I would not have said it.

I said very specifically that he "ran a lot of 3:52-53-54 miles", which he did:

(in chrono order) -

3:56.2 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Pittsburgh 10.05.1975

3:53.3 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 Kingston 17.05.1975

3:59.3 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Williamsburg 24.05.1975

3:57.78 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 London 04.07.1975

3:57.54 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 4 Philadelphia 04.08.1976

3:55.07 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 Stockholm 09.08.1976

3:59.85 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 Berlin 20.08.1976

3:59.8 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Limerick 02.06.1977

3:53.4 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Dublin 11.07.1977

3:59.7 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 5 Gateshead 30.07.1977

3:57.4 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Auckland 28.01.1978

3:56.91 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Westwood 06.05.1979

3:56.34 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Philadelphia 12.05.1979

3:54.8 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Cork 21.06.1979

3:52.88 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Philadelphia 30.06.1979

3:56.24 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Stockholm 03.07.1979

3:52.45 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 4 Oslo 17.07.1979

3:55.2 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Westwood 11.05.1980

3:56.3 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Cork 24.06.1980

3:58.6 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 8r1 Nice 17.08.1980

3:55.74 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 9 London 25.08.1980

3:54.94 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 3 Westwood 10.05.1981

3:58.57 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 6 Villanova 30.05.1981

3:52.11 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Cork 23.06.1981

3:56.50 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 9 Oslo 11.07.1981

3:58.47 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 7 Dublin 14.07.1981

3:57.8 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Tullyleash 17.08.1981

3:53.30 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 8 Bruxelles 28.08.1981

3:56.46 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 San José 28.05.1983

3:52.52 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Berkeley 12.06.1983

3:51.59 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 5 Oslo 09.07.1983

3:53.48 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Belfield 11.07.1983

3:57.61 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 4 London 23.07.1983

3:56.88 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 4 Villanova 14.06.1986

3:59.80 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Holmdel 29.07.1987

This covers 13 yrs inclusive, and it is only the years that he broke 4:00 outdoors. I don't see where he was running "outdoors to win"? Like I said, INDOORS nobody was better, outdoors he was consistently beaten by Liquori, Walker, Ovett, Scott, Cram, Wessinghage, Maree, Spivey, Wessinghage, even Todd Harbour, Jose Luis Gonzales and John Robson, etc.

This is not to disparage Coghlan, whom I consider one of the great milers of the 70s and 80s, but looking over his palmarés, I am surprised he was even able to place 4th in two Olympics and 2nd in the '78 Euro Champs.

In the big races he got beat by the same people, in the same way, in the same order, consistently.

Objectively, his best year seems to be 1979, where he won 3 small races and placed 2nd, 4th in the big ones, and lo and behold, ran 3:52.

His most productive year seems to be 1981, where he won two small races in Ireland, and placed 6th, 9th, 7th, and 8th in the big races, and lo and behold, ran 3:52.

Another good yr was 1983, where he ran 3:52, 3:51, and 3:53, but was 5th in Oslo and 4th in London.

His 1500m marks are much less prodigious:

(all marks under 3:38.00) -

3:37.01 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Philadelphia 05.06.1976

3:37.05 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 1 Helsinki 11.08.1976

3:36.57 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 24.11.52 2 Praha 03.09.1978

I have no idea how you figure he could have run a WR in 1983 or any other year. He was actually in TWO WR races. His best shot was in 1975 when he placed third 2.3 seconds off Bayi's 3:51.0 short-lived WR. By the end of the season he was 3.9 secs adrift of the WR. He was in Seb Coe's 1981 WR of 3:47.33 ... he placed 8th and 5.97 seconds behind. He improved that season to 3:51.59, but was still 4.26 seconds adrift of the contemporary WR.

I am not going to malign your calculator like I normally do, I just don't see where you get an indication of a 3:47 WR for Coghlan in 1983? He ran his best mile in his life (probably his best mark at any distance) at Oslo in 3:51.59 ... and got 5th (to Steve Scott, Jim Spivey, José Luis Gonzáles, and Jose Marajo).

He placed a slow 3:57.61 in London and placed 4th (to Steve Scott, Sebastian Coe, and Graham Williamson) when Scott won in 3:51.56 and Coe was 3:52.93. So he was SIX seconds behind TWO guys who actually HAD RUN 3:47 at that point. So that is SIX people who beat him just that year.

I rarely agree with your opinions, but I usually can see what you base them on. In this case I just don't see where you got any of this notion from? Unless you believe that everyone is 5 seconds better than what they showed in a 13 year career, I just don't get it?

Me lucky Charms wrote:

That Gold was Hugh! Proved he could do it outdoors and at a longer distance to boot! Very nice career.

That gold was Hugh? Hugh who? Hugh Laurie? Hugh Heffner? Explain yourself

One thing always mystified me when watching Coghlan in outdoor championship races such as the '76 Munich 1500 final and the '80 Moscow 5k final. He always seemed to be in perfect position at the bell and around the penultimate curve, yet somehow would manage to get himself into bad position before the home straightway. The guy had probably the best last 100 finishing speed (better than Coe's IMHO),yet that finishing speed would be spent fruitlessly trying to get back into medal position after losing it on the backstretch and the last curve.