Yeah you're not going to find a lot of minimalist cyclists. Except there is a contingent of fixie distance riders. Most fixie riders are in to making trouble around town, or bike polo. There is a decent bike polo scene in my town. Also velodrome track people.
pot head wrote:
Geez I forgot what I was gonna say.
this is my favorite letsrun post in years. thank you.
I raced D2 in college and now will be starting my first season on a UCI professional road team racing in North America, Asia, and Europe(raced from category 4 to 1 in a season). Without getting into the difference between mtn bike, cyclocross, and road; I'll throw out why I think there are major differences between road vs. running.
The running community is a lot more low key in the sense that as some previous posters mentioned; talent is very easily visualized. If you're the best you can drop just about anyone around you. Sure they may make it for a bit, but eventually it's going to get to them. The masters runners, lesser athletes, slower runners, whatever you want to call it, know their pace and don't try to venture from it (usually). And if they do try to throw down, you'll be able to hammer them into the ground after a good uptempo (if that's your objective). Cycling is only similar in this sense, when it's a long hard hilly day or you're absolutely murdering the front, you can drop someone, but it's a little bit harder on flats.
This is where the huge difference comes to play. In cycling, everyone thinks that if they make the right move or do the right tactics, they can catch the other off guard, even if they're a category worse. It's a lot easier to "keep up" with someone on a bike. Especially if it's a 30 mile ride. I'll ride to a "fake race" and guys will try and murder each other for the hour. But the difference between me and them is that I ride the 25 miles there and back, while most of them park their cars at the venue. Sure they can make me hurt on the flats, but they can only make those efforts for short periods of time. And thankfully, for some odd reason; being on a pro team gives you some sort of super powers in the eyes of local racers. Don't ask me why, but they are very respectful now.
Of course you'll have your masters who are "elitist" and will tell you how good they "used" to be. But that's because they can actually keep up for some of these rides, so they're around long enough to hear their jabbing. Or you'll have your cat 4 with the $3000 wheels because he has the money to spend. But in my opinion, while a bit comical; it is what it is. The only thing that really makes me angry is when I'll ride to a group ride, and guys either a) ride dangerously or b) don't respect the rules of the road.
Therefore, I mostly ride alone and with friends who I know aren't going to attempt to measure the size of their junk every second of the ride. While more rampant in the cycling community, I remember a ton of group runs where it was the annual smash each others' heads into the wall.
With that said, cycling is a lot more dangerous in a group. If the riders in the group aren't aware of their surroundings or don't care, then I'll get really upset. That is one big difference I've noticed. When I was with runners and you would start to get carried away; it wasn't 30 guys lining up across the road. It was 5-7 guys hammering side by side single file.
Once you get out of the categories and into the professional ranks, I think the camaraderie is very similar to collegiate/professional team running. You have your sprinters, climbers, all rounders, TT guys etc. You work together, you're friends. It's just like running in that it takes a team to win the meet or race. So at a professional level, I would consider the "community" extremely similar.
There are great people in both communities. I think the running community is a little bit less "crazy". But I do find the personalities at the upper level, extremely similar.
Canadian wrote:
was a runner for 25 years, now a cyclist for 7 years. You know how a possibly docile person gets behind the wheel of a car and becomes a road rage machine? Some people get on a bike and become just a slower version of that person.
However, like someone mentioned above, it's the wannabes who act this way. I don't think Chris Froome or Bradley Wiggins or Marianne Vos act like this.
Roadies definitely have an attitude, but their races do require an aggressive personality (at least criteriums do) it's like sprinters vs distance people,
I remember lots of problems with aggressive sprinters on the track (I even had Ben Johnson deliberately run into me on a track while I was helping to set up a track meet for kids)
So just like in running the really elite don't have to play those games, you don't see Genreselassie dissing his competitors, same in cycling.
I share a similar experience and opinion. 35 years running with a long climb and decline in competitiveness to finally joining in a recreational biking community to enjoy the freedom of moving long distances over hours at a time enjoying the great outdoors. Many posting here with bike racing experience. I have always followed biking and wanted to try it but it was expensive and I didn't have the time. Hinault/Lemond, Alexi Greywall, Karen Carpenter-Phinney, Nelson Vails etc... about the time I started paying attention. Even though I have coached runners for 26 years I would probably be called a hobby-jogger/biker. I do like to stay fit without the ability to recover like at a younger age so biking fits well into the cross-training scheme of things.
Even in my low level of road biking community there are always those that think they have to prove something to other bikers or break the rules of the road, don't hang around after the ride to socialize but if they do it's always to talk up how great they are in addition to trying to piss off an auto driver. This always mystifies me because the laws of physics rule first even if you are in the right. A 1 ton vehicle moving at any speed will always flatten a bike and its rider and they don't care if you have US Postal Service or a giant mug of beer on your jersey. I hate the idiots that make it worse for the rest of us that are just trying to enjoy some recreation and fresh air. However, most everyone in my biking community that cares about following the rules of the road are a pretty good bunch to hang around. I have made new friends in a new community outside of track and CC.
Finally, Pothead... Don't get on a bike please. If you do, at least wear a helmet.
The fact that you feel the need to share that you went from Cat 4 to Cat 1 in one season (apropos of nothing) tells the readers all they need to know. Or you're trolling. If so, not too shabby.
Fezzig wrote:
The fact that you feel the need to share that you went from Cat 4 to Cat 1 in one season (apropos of nothing) tells the readers all they need to know. Or you're trolling. If so, not too shabby.
The reason I said that, wasn't to boast but rather to make the statement that I did it in one season, for the sheer fact that some dude after college becoming a pro is pretty unlikely. Hence moving through categories quickly. If I wanted to boost I would have sat here and rattled off accomplishments. Sorry if my wording came off as such.
Conundrum wrote:
zbt wrote:I know a lot of cyclists, mostly good guys. Elites are elites in both sports, but the middle-of-the-pack, wannabe types in cycling are much more annoying than in running:
1. They are REALLY into the wearing the most screamingly loud spandex outfits they can find, covered with brand names, as if they are an endorsed pro (look at me!).
2. They spend thousands on their bikes to get attention and admiration from others that they can't get with their cycling, and talk about it all the time (look at me!!!!).
3. They ignore the rules of the road with cars, and flip you off (with your wife or kid in the car) if you let them know.
4. Are much less accepting of people of lesser ability, even though they are average
Yes, and these cycling wannabes have many negative stereotypes about middle-of-the-pack runners. Its amazing the negative stuff they can list off of about runners (and they think its true).
They have a total lack of introspection.
Laying the irony on thick
well.... wrote:
I raced bikes for a few years, and I still enjoy riding. Outside of casual tourists who are really mellow and low key, I find that cyclists tend to be more tightly wound and intense than runners, and I enjoy the company of runners more.
One symptom of that is the tendency of some riders to intentionally try to drop people on group rides. Yes, I know that attacks are a major part of racing, but that doesn't mean you need to do that on *every* group ride. If you're out with a mixed level group rolling along at 18-20MPH you don't need to break up the paceline by cranking it up to 22-23MPH. That's not fast enough to do you any good as a racer and all it does is make you look like a douche.
I also find that level of cyclist to be obsessed with gear. Yes, I appreciate the engineering involved in wireless shifters and featherweight composite frames and aero wheels, but among certain groups this kicks off an arms race. There's a group of middle aged I ride with sometimes, and they're always throwing money at the newest expensive stuff to show it off. Why the f*ck does a guy who rarely races need $3000 ENVE composite wheels?
They likely buy t because they can and they enjoy it. The more disturbing thing is why you care.
cycling community is worse bro. major gear queer magnet. to be fair mountain is better than road.
I've been peripherally involved in the cycling community for close to 10 yrs. My experiences with cyclists have always been cordial, respectful and friendly. In contrast, the running culture tends to attract people with major attitudes, self-inflated egos and look-at-me personas (don't know why, really).
All of this is nonsense wrote:
I raced D2 in college and now will be starting my first season on a UCI professional road team racing in North America, Asia, and Europe(raced from category 4 to 1 in a season). Without getting into the difference between mtn bike, cyclocross, and road; I'll throw out why I think there are major differences between road vs. running.
The running community is a lot more low key in the sense that as some previous posters mentioned; talent is very easily visualized. If you're the best you can drop just about anyone around you. Sure they may make it for a bit, but eventually it's going to get to them. The masters runners, lesser athletes, slower runners, whatever you want to call it, know their pace and don't try to venture from it (usually). And if they do try to throw down, you'll be able to hammer them into the ground after a good uptempo (if that's your objective). Cycling is only similar in this sense, when it's a long hard hilly day or you're absolutely murdering the front, you can drop someone, but it's a little bit harder on flats.
This is where the huge difference comes to play. In cycling, everyone thinks that if they make the right move or do the right tactics, they can catch the other off guard, even if they're a category worse. It's a lot easier to "keep up" with someone on a bike. Especially if it's a 30 mile ride. I'll ride to a "fake race" and guys will try and murder each other for the hour. But the difference between me and them is that I ride the 25 miles there and back, while most of them park their cars at the venue. Sure they can make me hurt on the flats, but they can only make those efforts for short periods of time. And thankfully, for some odd reason; being on a pro team gives you some sort of super powers in the eyes of local racers. Don't ask me why, but they are very respectful now.
Of course you'll have your masters who are "elitist" and will tell you how good they "used" to be. But that's because they can actually keep up for some of these rides, so they're around long enough to hear their jabbing. Or you'll have your cat 4 with the $3000 wheels because he has the money to spend. But in my opinion, while a bit comical; it is what it is. The only thing that really makes me angry is when I'll ride to a group ride, and guys either a) ride dangerously or b) don't respect the rules of the road.
Therefore, I mostly ride alone and with friends who I know aren't going to attempt to measure the size of their junk every second of the ride. While more rampant in the cycling community, I remember a ton of group runs where it was the annual smash each others' heads into the wall.
With that said, cycling is a lot more dangerous in a group. If the riders in the group aren't aware of their surroundings or don't care, then I'll get really upset. That is one big difference I've noticed. When I was with runners and you would start to get carried away; it wasn't 30 guys lining up across the road. It was 5-7 guys hammering side by side single file.
Once you get out of the categories and into the professional ranks, I think the camaraderie is very similar to collegiate/professional team running. You have your sprinters, climbers, all rounders, TT guys etc. You work together, you're friends. It's just like running in that it takes a team to win the meet or race. So at a professional level, I would consider the "community" extremely similar.
There are great people in both communities. I think the running community is a little bit less "crazy". But I do find the personalities at the upper level, extremely similar.
your post is too long. i did not read, but question the content.
I used to be a bike racer and I think running is just more social. It's shorter so it's less awkward, you don't run out of things to talk about, and it's generally more intense so there's less downtime. You can more easily stand around and chat before the run, you can go into a coffee shop or cafe and get a meal and look like quasi-normal people. You don't have to stop talking when things get single-file, or on fast descents, or in large groups with rotations.
But most importantly, in running you don't have to worry about what other people are doing! In cycling, half the time you're on a group ride with people you've just met you're getting annoyed by the new guys for doing something dumb.
Also, cycling tends to be dominated, population-wise, by older men. I don't mind riding with a bunch of older men, but having a critical mass of women adds a bit of social lubricant to any situation. It's almost worse sometimes when only one or two women show up because people tend to harass them in various ways, my female friends *often* complain about being talked down to by the older men who tell them to get out of the way (like, a Cat 2 or Pro woman will get that shit), and men will fight for position next to attractive women for the novelty of it or to try to hit on them.
semi;colon wrote:
I've been peripherally involved in the cycling community for close to 10 yrs. My experiences with cyclists have always been cordial, respectful and friendly. In contrast, the running culture tends to attract people with major attitudes, self-inflated egos and look-at-me personas (don't know why, really).
Here we have a typical clueless-cyclist specimen, wholly unaware of his arrogance and desire for attention. Observe closely, students!
Why do members of the cycling community wear pro team uniforms at fitness spin class. This seems very strange.
Biker Tights or Bun Huggers? wrote:
Finally, Pothead... Don't get on a bike please. If you do, at least wear a helmet.
Haha! Actually I ride a bike just about every day and have been for almost 20 years. I have never been a competitive cyclist, although I did join the UC Davis cycling team briefly for a few months, long enough to do a few training rides and get dropped a lot. One day got dropped 30 miles out in the middle of nowhere and got a flat tire. I was just like, what the f$ck am i doing? Plus i hurt my knee. That was the end of my competitive cycling career. They won championships that year, both mens and womens teams. I am sure I influenced that with my ebullient personality but certainly not by any riding talent. I got rid of my crappy $500 "race bike" and put together a nice fixie for relaxing long rides with non competitive friends and had a good time. That was more my speed.
have done both on a novice level. Cyclists have more opportunity to improve performance by buying higher tech equipment (carbon fiber...etc) so they substitute tech for talent. Cyclists also tend to compete more often during training........race you up the hill, race you down the hill, race you the last 1/2 mile......etc.etc. Also, with higher land speeds in cycling lead to novices, breaking a lot of cycling rules, accidentally and on purpose, that runners don't have to deal with. I miss the days of spending time w/ the running community!
This is not even a debate. Mountain bike cyclists are hippies and potheads, so they're usually cool with everyone, but road cyclists have little man syndrome. You know how athletes who suck in one sport gravitate to another one and as they move, the pool of supposed athletes in certain sports gets increasingly diluted, well when you consider the people who can't handle running, whether it's injuries or inability, cycling becomes a home for those guys. In the process, they confuse actual ability with the amount of money one is able to plop down on gear and machine, and assume just because they wear a shiny little monkey suit on a $2000 bike, their "prowess" is validated. Truth is, they've only moved from little fish in a big pond to little fish in a little pond, and the depression that arises from realizing this fact causes them to take it out on the rest of us.
Yeah France wrote:
Running groups are more accepting of people with different abilities. A typical long run with my group goes: everybody runs together an shoots BS for the first 10 min, we split into our natural groups for the rest of the run, then get together at the end for coffee/BS. When new people join up, they are quickly accepted.
This.
Both road running and track culture are very welcoming.
As a so-so master's age guy I show up to all-comers meets and shoot the sh_t with everyone from college sprinters to sub-elite distance guys to international field athletes, and everyone's interested in each other's success. My last meet I had an 10.x HS kid I'd never met screaming at me like it was a WR attempt...while I ran a 1500 backstretch in no-man's land.
Not exactly what I've seen in cycling.