How did Dathan Ritzenhein handle this HS - Training?

NOP Skeptic wrote:

kdk wrote:

No, your are the dumb one here. Whether or not he did this workout is a different issue. But if he did, it wouldn't have been that hard. Just long.

People commonly do 12 x 400 at mile pace (that's not a hard workout). So what is so unbelievable about 36 at 5k pace?

12 x 400m can be a hard workout, it depends, what's the rest? 30 secs, 100m jog and you can't tell me it's easy...

You don´t do 12x400 at mile pace with 30 s rest unless your mile time sucks relative to your longer distance PB:s.

The classic mile predictor is 10x400 with 60 rest.

On top of a full schedule morning and night 7 days a week with significant volume from morning runs everyday, besides crazy workouts...: All those warmups! Oh just casually a Three mile warmup! And after the main course, another two mile cool down! I just don't understand. When you have all that volume, do you really need a three mile warmup everytime? Someone chime in please. Illumination

Rethickulous wrote:

On top of a full schedule morning and night 7 days a week with significant volume from morning runs everyday, besides crazy workouts...: All those warmups! Oh just casually a Three mile warmup! And after the main course, another two mile cool down! I just don't understand. When you have all that volume, do you really need a three mile warmup everytime? Someone chime in please. Illumination

I used to do similar mileage with 3 mile warmups and cool-downs. It felt awkward to warm up less and did nothing close to tiring me out.

If it was the SUMMER, BEFORE his senior year of high school, then that wasn't 5k pace - it was 2 mile pace in the least.

asian deets wrote:

If it was the SUMMER, BEFORE his senior year of high school, then that wasn't 5k pace - it was 2 mile pace in the least.

He was clearly in better shape than his junior year.

He ran 14:10 for the 5k at the state meet just a few months after this...

bernie madoff wrote:

asian deets wrote:

If it was the SUMMER, BEFORE his senior year of high school, then that wasn't 5k pace - it was 2 mile pace in the least.

He was clearly in better shape than his junior year.

He ran 14:10 for the 5k at the state meet just a few months after this...

A few months of intense workouts later, yes he did.

why y? wrote:

newname wrote:

4:02y and 8:51y and national titles in XC and track

WTF is 4:02y?

The y is for yards. It's one way to specify that it was a full mile as opposed to a 1600, 1500 conversion, or relay time.

no it is not wrote:

Duh Silly wrote:

Thank you for proving my point. Rupp ran faster in high school with LESS VOLUME. Rupp also has an Olympic medal. Rupp was doing things like 12x1k in high school. 32 400s at 5k pace for a 17 yr old is crazy.

How is 32x 400 at 5k pace any crazier than 12x400 at mile pace that EVERYONE does? What does being 17 have to do with it? Rupp has an Olympic medal in a dying event from a race where everyone had switched events or was injured.

That medal comment is so irrelevant. That has nothing to do with fitness or training which is what this discussion is about. The other poster was correct. All of that "long term development" got Rupp to the exact same spot as Ritz. Their PRs are identical.

Doing a 16 mile interval workout on the track is a colossal waste of time. But I'm sure this workout was 16x400 in 66. With 16x400 recovery jogs. That's 8 miles plus 8 miles from the morning. 16 miles. Warm up and cool down adds 6 miles. That's 22 for the day.

My point about Ritz and Rupp stands. Similar pr's but Rupp has an Olympic medal. 3rd in the world 1/2 championships vs 2nd at the Olympics to the 5k/10k double champion. Hardly watered down.

Duh Silly wrote:

My point about Ritz and Rupp stands. Similar pr's but Rupp has an Olympic medal. 3rd in the world 1/2 championships vs 2nd at the Olympics to the 5k/10k double champion. Hardly watered down.

And your point is?

Duh Silly wrote:

I'm sure this workout was 16x400 in 66.

Who cares if 16 miles on the track is a "colossal waste of time" (in your expert opinion). If Ritz said he did it, he did it. No one claimed the coach was a genius. If it was actually only 16 x 400 and 22 miles total, he wouldn't be calling it his "longest day ever," would he.

HardLoper wrote:

Who cares if 16 miles on the track is a "colossal waste of time" (in your expert opinion). If Ritz said he did it, he did it. No one claimed the coach was a genius. If it was actually only 16 x 400 and 22 miles total, he wouldn't be calling it his "longest day ever," would he.

You must be the kind of guy starts measuring your d1ck from the middle of your back. 22 miles for a high schooler should be longest day ever.

Duh Silly wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

Who cares if 16 miles on the track is a "colossal waste of time" (in your expert opinion). If Ritz said he did it, he did it. No one claimed the coach was a genius. If it was actually only 16 x 400 and 22 miles total, he wouldn't be calling it his "longest day ever," would he.

You must be the kind of guy starts measuring your d1ck from the middle of your back. 22 miles for a high schooler should be longest day ever.

Ritz wrote this in 2010, with 3-4 marathons under his belt. Thus 22 miles would not have been his "longest day ever," would it?

why y? wrote:

newname wrote:

4:02y and 8:51y and national titles in XC and track

WTF is 4:02y?

This is common shorthand for times in TaFNews. For example, if I were a miler I might run 4:15 for the mile and if I had a slower time in the 1500m (because it is run less often or whatever) of 4:08, it might be confusing. My PRs would be represented as ...

4:15y

4:08

Also, for when you are listing a group of times when someone has improved over the years it makes it clearer.

Yrs ago, distance runners ran the Mile, 2 mile, 3 mile and 6 mile. Then they switched to metric, and flip-flopped for a time.

In HS, until 1981 STATES ran 100yd, 220yd, 440yd, etc. Then nearly every distance was replaced with a metric distance that was close, but the 100yd was WAY different from the 100m. Hence a time was listed as 9.6y for the 100yd distance.

Then around 1990, some states started running the 1500m and 3000m. Some states had done it all along.

In HS now, it is common to have run the 1500m, the 1600m and the Mile, and the 3000m, 3200m and 2 mile, and they are all close, but not the same. Grant has run the 1500 and Mile at the highest level of anyone in HS the last two yrs and I was just making sure you knew what I was talking about.

I think that Alan Webb may have a 3:59 1600m performance, but I can't remember.

newname wrote:

I think that Alan Webb may have a 3:59 1600m performance, but I can't remember.

I'm pretty certain there's never been a sub-4 1600m but a few 4:00-4:01s maybe.

Smtcc wrote:

Way back in 1972, a junior from Santa Monica, Curtis Beck ran a 4:04 mile & 8:48 2 mile... Running 35-45 miles a week!

Yes, and people called him a low-mileage trainer. And he was. He was barely training compared to most anyone else. But he was certainly barely training compared to Eric Hulst.

Why even point it out in light of my second paragraph? Do you want more examples of how this is middle-school training?

Breathe in breathe out wrote:

newname wrote:

I think that Alan Webb may have a 3:59 1600m performance, but I can't remember.

I'm pretty certain there's never been a sub-4 1600m but a few 4:00-4:01s maybe.

I am pretty sure you are right, which is why I wrote that. But thanks for pointing out what I didn't remember.

I think he ran a sub-4:00 relay 1600m leg (which I know counts for nothing), but I was just pointing out how throwing out times for the Mile and 2mile can be confusing. I had even forgot that people list relay carries and this generation doesn't know that you put an "r" on the end.

Breathe in breathe out wrote:

newname wrote:

I think that Alan Webb may have a 3:59 1600m performance, but I can't remember.

I'm pretty certain there's never been a sub-4 1600m but a few 4:00-4:01s maybe.

I thought Paul Vandegrift held the NHSF "record" for 1600m. I thought it was 4:01 or 4:02 or 4:03?

But then I saw this:

Don't know if that mark was a converted mile or what? Or whether there was a 1600m split at that mark? Not sure, but according to them he did it. I am an avid TaFNews reader and there was a lot of interest around Webb at that time (maybe you followed it too?) and I don't remember this race or result, but somehow it happened?

Weak. Should have run 60 x 400m if he was really all that serious about being a champion.