A college coach told me that I need to run 20:00 for 4 miles to try out. Is this realistic for me?

collegekid1928 wrote:

First of all, what would be a 5k time that is equivalent to a 20:00 4 mile? My High School PR's are 1:55 and 4:17, and I have a decent aerobic base built from two summers of 60 mile weeks. How long would it take for me to get in this kind of shape?

Based on your PRs and assuming you are better now, this is realistic and is a reasonable walk-on standard for a major D1 program. When I coached H.S., that was about what my sub-16 XC and 9:15 2-milers were capable of. I would guess (4) 5 minute miles is about equal to a low 15 5K on a track. Looking at your PRs, if you are targeting a major D1 program, I suggest you focus on meeting the requirements, which should be doable.

That kind of time for four miles would be tough to hit during the preseason. You are better off going to a program that wants you there, rather than one who's coach is trying to brush you off. Plenty of mid-major DI programs would be happy to have a 4:17 miler join their ranks.

vkgvmgfkhgf wrote:

I had a 149 and 405 pr and could probably run 20 min for 4 miles but it would be close.

I think you are underestimating how difficult this would be for a true middle distance runner with a 4:17 pr.

Respect. I got out of high school with almost identical PRs to OP, but my two mile was an abysmal 9:48. 4 miles at 5 minute pace when I could barely run two? Not happening. Granted, if that kept me off of the XC team and let me run just track with all fall to base train? If only I were so lucky.

OP, you more than likely have the potential to run 20 flat for 4 miles, but don't let yourself think that if you can't do it you are somehow less capable as a runner.

if true, this coach is an idiot elitist. That he would cut a potential freshman walk-on that could run say 21:00 for a 4-miler before the season - well I don't think he would even at D1 level, but if he did he would lose lots of potential superstars. Sounds like he only want Olympians (not just future but at current level) on his team.

The Donger wrote:

Sloop John B wrote:

The real measure is taking the 10:30 2 mile kid in highschool and getting him to run a 24:00 8k in college. The best coaches recruit talent, but coach hard work and physiology. Simple as that. It's a shame only a few of the greats like Wetmore understand this.

Let's wake up from this wet dream for a moment bWetmore does not take 10:30 guys and turn them into 24:00 guys. He takes 8:50-9:15 guys and turns them into 24 min guys. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I don't know of any program that takes 10:30 guys. Maybe Junior College?

Rutgers

You shouldn't be posting on this message board if you haven't run a sub 20 4 miler. Most of us run that to close a marathon.

As to whether or not you can do it off of a 4:17 mile... I can only run 4:52 at best but I can run at least 7 sub 20 min 4 miles in a row.

The walk-on standard for my team in college (D1, qualifies for nationals maybe 1 out of every 3 years) was a 15:37 5K, run on a track in the same session those of us who were "returning" (i.e. not incoming freshmen or someone trying out) were expected to be able to run 25:00 for 5 miles.

20:00 for 4 miles sounds tough but reasonable depending on the quality of the program.

As for the feasibility for OP, your 800 and 1600 times are significantly more impressive than a 20:00 4-mile, but the fact you didn't also list a 3200 or cross-country 5K time is a bad sign for you having that kind of range.

To the OP, like someone said above, just go somewhere that you are wanted. I was told by a coach of not even a mid major DI school (they are much better now), that I could try out, but most likely wouldn't make the team. So instead I went to a DII school that wanted me there, on scholarship. I never lost to someone from the DI school, and would have been the school record holder in a few events by my senior year. I ended up being a top ten time in all divisions in the 10km by my senior year. But more importantly, I had a blast wouldn't trade it for any other experience. The moral from my story is that, don't get allured by the "DI" mentality. If you go somewhere that you fit in with the coach, the team, the school, you will succeed.

I don't know why everyone is so surprised by this. This seems to be the trend in many of the major programs in the country. For the majority the best recruiters win, ready made superstars are what is needed. A school in the Big 12 requires a 19:10 4 miler for tryouts. Teams win by polishing gems, not molding clay.

Webbie wrote:

I don't know why everyone is so surprised by this. This seems to be the trend in many of the major programs in the country. For the majority the best recruiters win, ready made superstars are what is needed. A school in the Big 12 requires a 19:10 4 miler for tryouts. Teams win by polishing gems, not molding clay.

I call B.S. on the 19:10 and Merry Christmas!

Based on your 800 and 1600 or full mile? time you are able to run between 20:30 and 21:00 on track.

If you had PR's of 2:00 and 4:17 for full mile, you had a better chance.

However, when I was in shape for sub 20 4 mile (I got stitch after 4k, was at 9:5x halfway), my best times were 1:59.13 form 1.5 years back, 4:01.00 from 0.5 years back and 15:25 from 0.5 years back. Ran many miles in the meantime. I think you need to be in 15:1x shape.

Webbie wrote:

For the majority the best recruiters win, ready made superstars are what is needed. Teams win by polishing gems, not molding clay.

^^^100%

This is TRUE. Best recruiters have the best teams.

Incompetent coach+ Blue Chip recruits=Very Competitive Team.

Even mediocre coaches who can recruit talent will beat the coaches who are great at developing athletes. The only chance a not as talented, hard working, well coached team has is when the mediocre coach blows up his talent team by running them into the ground during the season.

a 15:30 5K, it just isn't realistic for you. You should look into cross fit instead.

collegekid1928 wrote:

First of all, what would be a 5k time that is equivalent to a 20:00 4 mile? My High School PR's are 1:55 and 4:17, and I have a decent aerobic base built from two summers of 60 mile weeks. How long would it take for me to get in this kind of shape?

Go somewhere where your talents will be appreciated and flourish. I would have barely qualified to walk on at that school too.

Iowa state is the school that requires a 19:10 4 mile time trial. Think its on the track usually done solo.

racewalkordie wrote:

That kind of time for four miles would be tough to hit during the preseason. You are better off going to a program that wants you there, rather than one who's coach is trying to brush you off. Plenty of mid-major DI programs would be happy to have a 4:17 miler join their ranks.

Exactly.

I would go somewhere else.

fat and retired wrote:

The walk-on standard for my team in college (D1, qualifies for nationals maybe 1 out of every 3 years) was a 15:37 5K, run on a track in the same session those of us who were "returning" (i.e. not incoming freshmen or someone trying out) were expected to be able to run 25:00 for 5 miles.

20:00 for 4 miles sounds tough but reasonable depending on the quality of the program.

As for the feasibility for OP, your 800 and 1600 times are significantly more impressive than a 20:00 4-mile, but the fact you didn't also list a 3200 or cross-country 5K time is a bad sign for you having that kind of range.

The team I currently run for (D1, has made nationals twice in cross) has pretty similar walk-on standards (15:05 for 12 laps on the track, 5:10 pace for six miles on a flat dirt path outside the school), but you have multiple chances afterwards (running other cross meets unattached where the team runs, but you can't train with the team until you make it).

20:00 sounds hard, but it's not as bad as some people think. A well season guy can run pretty close to that, but it really depends on your aerobic strength, OP. I think you're capable enough.

Coaches with try-out minima are intellectually lazy. Context is everything. Running is dominated by late bloomers who didn't burn out in HS.

To the OP:

It's semi realistic for you. If you're going to that school and want to run there, then do it. But if you're still considering where to run, maybe check elsewhere to ensure you'll be able to run (assuming the 20 needs to be like the first week of the season).

If the coach seems like a good guy and decent coach, then give it a shot. But if he's a jerk, then be wary.

There's a high likelihood the team will take you if you're just in the low 20s and keep showing up. At my school that's what happened. Guys who were sub 4:20 got recruited, a few in the low to mid 4:20s walked on. The ones who kept coming to the practice were allowed to join the team, but didn't get to travel. This was for a team that used to make nationals all the time with their old coach a few years ago then they switched to a different coach the year before I came to the school and haven't made it since. The newer coach is a jerk and not very good, but he's desperate and even took some low 4:30 guys along with his usual crop of 4:10-4:20 guys.

Anyways, just because the coach has a time standard doesn't mean he's a bad coach or a bad person. but if he is either of those, don't join the team.