Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 12/7

Goal Race: Bristol 10k

Daniels 5k-10k Plan (3rd Edition)

Week 1 of 26

Mon - 6.75 miles - club run (7:32)

Tue - 8.25 miles - easy (8:06)

Wed - 6 miles - easy (8:07)

Thu - 6 miles - easy + 8 strides (7:42)

Fri - 4 miles - easy (8:08)

Sat - 3 miles - easy (8:27)

Sun - 16 miles - easy (8:16)

Total: 50 miles

Not posted for a few weeks; ran my last HM about three weeks ago, but unfortunately came up slightly short of my goal of 1:29:59, running about 1:33 in the end. The time was a bit disappointing, as it was not only slower than my goal, but also 2 mins outside my recent PB (September); but I don't think I could have done much better on the day.

The course was multiple laps of an airfield, and incorporated something like 16 'dead turns', which were pretty much hairpin bends, which meant slowing right down or running wide just to keep enough momentum. I think it was these, coupled with the concentration needed on a featureless course, that killed me on the day.

Anyway, after that disappointment, I decided to take a step back and build towards next spring, as I think I may have reached my potential for this season. Took one week completely off, and then did a light week of just 30 miles, before the week detailed above.

Not too much to mention, as the first 8 weeks are going to be pretty much pure base building, before moving in to phase 2. Felt terrible on the Saturday, which was the reason for only 3 miles; but I was pretty pleased with Sunday's long run, as that's the furthest I've run for a long time (in fact, the only time I've been that far previously was in my first 6 months of running, when I really didn't have a clue - I was running my long run as like 60% of my mileage for the week!).

Quite pleased with 50 miles for the week, as that equals my highest ever so far. Planning on two more weeks at 50, before moving up to 55 for 3 weeks. Got a holiday planned, which will probably see me drop down to 30 or so for a couple of weeks, but after that I'm planning to build to 60 and maintain that throughout most of the program.

The ultimate aim is the 10k at the end of May, which seems quite a while away yet, but I think my body will benefit from a couple of months of pretty much all easy running before hitting the workouts hard in the new year.

Not going to set a goal at this stage, because I think aiming for 1:30 for the half actually distracted me a bit - I think it was a little detrimental, as I think deep down I never really felt I was in shape to run that time. So I'm not going to set any targets for the 10k until a lot closer to the time. May run a parkrun in the next week or so, to see where my fitness is at; but after that I doubt there will be any races before February.

Hope everyone had good weeks!

Kendo

Pewow- Not a bad week. Running with those faster guys can really help out in training. It just makes you want to run as fast mentally. You should take advantage of that more often.

Pikachu- Great week! Getting that mileage in. You seem to be consistent. That's key. Your 10 mile tempo says a lot about your strength then you came back with only one recovery day to crush your long progression run. Keep it up. I wanted to ask, what type of marathon workouts have you done in the past that suggests you were in peak shape? Just curious since I have my race in 6 weeks.

Cmm268- Sorry to hear about work sucking. It can do that. But glad you got your training in. Your turkey trot race seemed good for the most part. You did break the 17 minute barrier, even though you went out super fast. That might suggest you would run faster if raced more evenly. But great two weeks of training. Hope work gets better as well.

Forcerunner- Nice 5k! Winning is what matters and you did it in a solid time. You're so consistent with these 5k's lol. Also, you had a solid workout earlier in the week. That 4:45 means a lot. You're improving and should be cutting seconds off that 5k if not more. Keep it up.

Back into it- Even with work not allowing you to hit a full weeks mileage you still had a good week. The tempo definitely stands out to me. Dropping the pace to 5:0x's suggests you're strong. This tempo was similar to Pikachu's tempo this week. I also asked Pikachu and I wanted to ask you, but what marathon workouts have you done in the past that suggested you were in peak shape? I just want to know where I stand at the moment. 6 weeks until Houston.

Hereford- Great marathon despite the stomach issues. Like you said you still had a decent time and stopped for a little bit. Nothing to be upset with. For being 45 running sub 3 is a huge accomplishment. Hope you recovery well!

Mathias- Solid 10k for not racing lol. Dealing with a cold can really weaken the body. You made the right call. It is only your first week of winter training. There's plenty of time for races. But great 10 mile progression. Dropped the pace very nice!

Printer- Great marathon! I enjoyed your race report. You hit your C goal and that's great. Like I said before being at that she and running sub 3 is a huge accomplishment. Hope your recovery goes well.

Xenonscreams- Hope you're ready for club nats! You've done all the training so you should he good to go. Solid 3k time trial. It wasn't all out but it stills suggests what your fitness is. Plus you're running that type of effort and it's your PR pace, so you're much faster than your PR. Good luck at club nats. You'll do great.

TheGarbageDisposal- Your half marathon blows my mind lol. I don't see how you manage to almost PR in the middle of such a high mileage week. Having those guys up front in the race will really make you want to run with them. I would've done the same lol. Keep it up though. We're gonna kill it in Houston!

Hi,

Don't know if I clasisfy as a road racer... But I'm preparing for the national championships 10k (The Netherlands) in february and I've been running most of my mileage on the road lately. The time between cross-country seasons (which ends in january/february here) and track I'll run more road races, mostly 5k's.

I'm aiming for a sub-35 10k (but hope to break 34:31, which a friend of mine ran when he was also 16). My training for now is aimed at building more endurance, so mostly tempo, easy and long runs.

Anyway, this was what I did last week:

Monday- 40 minutes at a moderate pace, zone 2(we work with heart rate zones, starting from zone 0 up to zone 5.)= little more than 6 miles

Tuesday- XC training, 3x6min, almost anaerobic pace= 9 miles (including warmup/cooldown)

Wednesday- 40 minutes at an easy pace, zone 1= 5 miles

Thursday- 8x800m on track, target pace 2:48 = 9 miles (including warmup/cooldown)

Friday- Some strength work

Saturday- Tempo run at different paces= 9 miles

Sunday= 11 mile long run, zone 0

Total= 49 miles. About 40 of those were run on the road. :)

Have a nice week! And thanks Stone Cutter for starting this thread, my favourite on the forum :)

Congrats to Hereford and Printer on their marathons. Cmm, way to get over the hump in the 5k.

Goal: Get Healthy

Goal: Y10 (10 mile) Feb 14

M: 6 mi easy 7:45/mi aHR 131 + strengthening

T: OFF

W: 6 mi easy 7:34/mi aHR 137 + strengthening

T: 7 mi easy 7:27/mi aHR 132

F: 10 mi easy 7:46/mi aHR 136

S: 8 mi easy 7:54/mi aHR 131

S: 13 mi easy 7:55/mi aHR 134

Weekly Total: 50 miles

YTD: 1862 miles

Tuesday I was ready to go run, then just opened up the bag of excuses (too cold, tired, hungry...). Changed back into street clothes.

Sunday's run wasn't good. The first 10 miles went alright. The last 3 miles my lower back was bothering me. I almost broke the run off at that point, but instead I said quit being a wuss (well that is the clean version of what i actually said) and I just focused on getting my hips under me and running more upright. My pace ended up dropping about 15s/mi but the discomfort went away and I finished the run.

not dropping, gaining (7:45s to 8:00+). Just want to clarify that it wasn't an improvement.

Wow, some great weeks out there for everyone!

Goal - Boston Marathon sub 2:50

After last week's turkey trot debacle I decided to just take it pretty easy this week and try and flush out some fatigue and see what would happen for Sunday's Half Mary.

Mon - 5.5 am aerobic

Tue - 4.5 am easy, 4.5 pm track 8x400 working HM pace

Wed - 6 pm progression

Thur - 3.5 pm easy

Fri - 3m easy

Sat - Off (wasn't planned but some crap came up)

Sun - Half Marathon - 1:18:38 and a solid new PR.

Wasn't sure what to expect on Sunday at all given what happened the prior week and no real race prep. Pacing was a crap shoot so I grabbed a number I thought I might be able to hold onto and it turned out to be no struggle at all. Probably could have gone sub 1:18 if I had a better idea going into the day but I'm still super pleased with how it turned out.

Now it's back to 85+ mpw for a little bit before rolling into my Boston build.

RunnersFix - I looked through some of my old logs, and there are a few workouts I always do before marathons (about 6-8 weeks out):

half marathon tempo - I do a 6-7 mi warmup and run a half marathon tempo. The goal of the tempo is to average goal marathon pace, but to do this as a progression. So I usually start +15 seconds on GMP and end -10ish or so.

4X10 min with 8-10 min active recovery, again this is with fast recovery. Usually going 5 min pace / 6 min pace, again averaging out somewhere around GMP

To be honest when I look back at my log most of my fartlek efforts ended up being right at my marathon pace ( 5 on 5 off, 10 / 8, etc).

And finally, I usually do one 8 mile tempo where I start 10 seconds above GMP and end quick (20:20 or so for last 4). If that feels good I'm pretty confident.

cmm268: Congrats for finally breaking 17! Always cool to get through suche barriers :-)

Forcerunner: Your races are damn consistent (but no wonder). Congrats, too! Liked that cut-down-wo!

RunnersFix: Very good week. 6 weeks till rockn'roll!! :-) I thought the same as Garbage: Closing in 4:50 „feeling good“ on the 4, 3, 2 mile wo bodes well for Houston, when the going gets tough. If you can still bang a 4:50 on the last mile, this mile alone gives you ~ 25'' of time cushion to your goal pace what would be really nice.

As far as workouts... Like back into it wrote, you can't get enough tempo type stuff. I'd like to add long acceleration runs to the mix where you hit MP for the last couple of miles. I usually like to have at least one run of 22+ miles where I hit MP for the last 8 - 10 miles. But I seem to be pretty durable with the long tempos.

back into it: Yeah, our tempos seem to have been very similar. Great week from you, too. Tempo run and comin' back the next day with a 20 seems like you're getting there! Honestly, after a bad patch with some overtraining problems I am here to get some anonymous feedback on my training because I always like to have some other opinions. So I am a bit interested, as you're trying to basically hit the ballpark of my PR: How fast do you do your normal runs? If I feel good I mostly run into the 7:00-7:30-minute range (4:20-4:30/K here in Europe :P), RunnersFix seems to fall into that cetegory, too. I know many people roughly in my category that run a tad faster (maybe 6:20-ish or even close to 6flat). Just askin' :-) Keep it up man! :-)

Hereford: Man, come on. 2:56 with stomach issues when your goal was 2:50. I would say pretty damn impressive. Props for going on like you did!

Matthias: Nice week and props to have a rest day in there. I should take one here and there, too, I guess, but I am just wired to run daily, even better twice per day, idk why. I just go nuts without at least 60' of running xD

Distance Fan: Yeah, just give it a try :-)

Printer: Great job! Really. And there's even more to come, I'm sure. I'm a bit jealous bc your legs don't hurt. For me: It gets better every time but still my quads usually are completely trashed for like 2 days.

Piano_Man87: Run b4 work. Really. In the beginning and on some tired days it's damn hard. But when you have breakfast and know you already have done the miles... It's a good feeling and once you're used to it you will want to do it that way over and over again.

Xenonscreams: Yeah, get excited, it will help you in the race :-) For the Pikachu-thing... My brother and I just loved to make Pikacha-jokes ehen we were young... and... When we meet, we still love it today :D :D PIKACHUUUU :D Yeah. Call us kids in the body of men... :-)

KBXC: I think the shorter the distance gets the more weights can help you, so your coach for sure is right to do some stuff. Just be a bit cautious when doing HARD running. You don't want to lift or sprint too often on tired legs.

JSrun: I like 200s at roughly mile pace! I think it will set you up fine.

Garbage Disposal: You're seeing the right pattern ;-) It's not always like that – but very often. Great race btw. 120 miles and 1:08:04 is pretty crazy IMHO. Looks like 2:20 or 2:22-ish is getting more and more realistic. Same question for you as for back into it: How fast do you usually run your distance runs? I find that pretty interesting as you usually do not post your paces and it's a pretty big difference if you run 6 or 8 minutes per mile :-)

AF...NL: welcome! :-)

sps: looking good – still many weeks till 02/14/15.

working harder: great run: sub 2:50 should really be possible.

New Goal: TBD

M - 6 easy

T - 7 moderate, w strides

W - 8 w 2 @6:10

T - 6 easy

F - 6 moderate, w strides

S - 4 easy

S - Cal International Marathon in 2:56:12

63.2 total

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I had a few issues leading up to and during the race Sunday. For the most part I was healthy and rested but missed a bit of training volume and intensity in the final month due to multiple calf strains. Both legs felt good during the race though. Unfortunately my stomach didn't comply. Things started feeling dicey about 7 miles into the run and I finally had to stop for a #2 toilet break at mile 18. That break cost me 2 minutes per my Garmin. Once I knew that time (and my 2:50 goal) was lost I didn't kill myself in the last 8 miles, figuring that anything between 2:55 and 2:59 was basically the same. I ran with purpose but mainly tried to enjoy the experience. Felt good in the last mile and closed in 6:30.

Ultimately, I was in 2:54 shape versus my goal of 2:49:59. That target was a stretch. But setting it forced me to experiment with new training techniques and it reset my frame of mind about what I could run. My fastest prior masters 26.2 was 3:00:03 in 2011 when I was 41. I'll be 45 next month. The 2:56 is my best marathon in the past 10 years. I'll take that!

Overall, even though I missed my goal, this training cycle was a big success. In addition to the post-40 PR, I learned a ton about what sessions work for me and what my body can tolerate at this age. I'm building from a solid base heading into 2015, where I will work primarily on speed until March, when I'll shift to Boston prep.

You guys have been very inspiring the past several months. Thanks for all of the motivation and training expertise! I look forward to participating here further in 2015. Comments to follow in a separate post.

I always pop on and read but I am going to jump back in to the mix.

It was almost a year ago (end Dec beginning of Jan) that I got hurt and also started back at school full time and working. With all that I lost motivation to run, mainly b/c I can't seem to stay injury free.

Well I got going again when I friend convinced/guilted me into signing up for a half marathon in mid March. I figured if I can get through the training maybe I can keep it going and make a marathon debut in November 2015 and the ripe old age of 45

Race: Tobacco Rd. Half Marathon (March 15th)

Goal: A) to get to start B) Time TBD

Mon - 4mi (7:16)

Tue - 5mi (7:23)

Wed - 6.4mi (7:33) inclu 2 x short hill sprints (10sec)

Thu - 5mi (7:20)

Fri - 4mi (7:11) inclu 8 x 15sec hard 45sec easy

Sat - 2.75mi (7:39)

Sun - 9.15mi (7:17)

Week Total 36.3mi

I started running again on Oct 18th with 10min runs on a treadmill and have built up to my 36mi over 7 weeks. I have actually run every day since that 1st day so that is 44 days and counting (that is why Sat is less than 3mi. Sort of my off day but keep the little streak going)

I do need to slow down. I think that is always my problem. I start all runs at around 8min pace but then they progress, so like my long run (9mi) I ended with last 3mi under 7min pace. I do not think there is anything wrong with that once a solid base is formed, but 7wks in that might be a little quick. The week above was my first time throwing anything quicker in the mix with those 15sec accelerations.

I also got a pair of Hoka's (looking for anything to help my old fragile legs) and decided to do my long runs and the run the day after in them. They actually feel pretty good even from a stability perspective.

Looks like some serious training and racing getting thrown down by a bunch of you.

Hopefully I can stay injury free and be a consistent contributor to the thread.

Pikachu - I would say I do most of my runs around the same pace that you do. When I double my shorter run (usually 5 miles) is at 7:40-7:50 pace. Then my longer run (10-12) will be between 6:45-7:15. If I'm feeling great I'll occasionally push the end of my runs (last 3-4 miles) but that's usually without trying to. And on my long runs I'll usually end up around 6-6:30 for a portion of it (normally because I'm running with friends who run less but tend to train faster). I find that if I do my runs much faster I struggle to recover for my long tempos. I used to train at 6:15-45 but that is when I was racing shorter distances and my mileage was only ~65.

Pikachu- Thanks. For the pacing question I generally start my easy runs around 8min/mi pace and gradually the pace quickens without increasing my effort as my body loosens up. Most days I'll end around 7:15-7:30 pace, but occasionally I'll dip into 6:40-6:50 pace for the last mile or so. (so on average my runs come out to about 7:30/mi pace). This is all at altitude though, when I run at sea level I think the paces tend to be about 10-20s/mi faster, but I still rarely go below 6:40 pace at the end of my runs.

Pewow - running with faster people is a great way to improve. just don't fall into the trap of trying to match their pace on your easiest days.

Pikachu - great week with a very solid session Tuesday and tempo effort Friday. Nice to see you hitting the big volume now.

Cmm - good quality stuff, man. Congrats on getting back below 17 min. Hope your work schedule has eased up a little.

Force - that's a big week. I've never run a 4:45 mile and can only imagine it. Hard to believe that the marathon WR is basically running that pace for 26.2. Incredible. Anyway, great job in the 5k. 15 min is smokin'!!

RunnersFix - another big week. It looks like you're holding up very well with that volume and good amount of quality. What type of weight training are you doing (high weight/low rep? The opposite?)

Back into it - jeez, there's a pattern here, you guys are giving me an inferiority complexity with these 90+ mile weeks and 5:XX avg tempo runs. Great stuff!

Matthias - awesome 10k! 35 is a very strong result on a XC course. Did you have a goal for that race?

Distance - good base/maintenance week. You have plenty of time to achieve a new peak for a HM in Feb. Hope you can keep up the consistency over the holidays.

Printer - a big Congrats on your race in some tough conditions. 2:56 is incredible for >50yo. I hope that in another 5 years I'm anywhere close to that shape. I like your cascading goals. With any luck the last one won't be in play for a LONG time. Recover well and enjoy getting some rest.

Piano - welcome back to the thread! Can you get your runs done early in the mornings? If so, then maybe you can still enjoy a drink each night.

Xenon - good luck at club nats! Looking forward to the report.

Reed - I've never tried the BM but probably would DNF. It looks easy but is probably very tough. Well done.

KBXC - strong week with some good ancillary stuff mixed in.

JSrun - very nice base week. That 60+mpw threshold seems to be a common inflection point. Good luck with ramping up the fitness heading into the competition season.

Garbage - great race and very impressive improvement from the same race last year. This bodes well for your Houston outlook. Stay healthy in these final weeks.

Kendo - it looks like you're approaching your fitness wisely by recognizing what's achievable this year. Long term incremental development is the way to go.

AFrunner - welcome. I like your sub 35 10k goal. Good luck with the training!

Sps - probably a smart move to pull the hips under your spine. Good alignment without an arched lower back should relieve some strain.

Working harder - fantastic HM finish! With a 1:18 under your belt a sub 2:50 in Boston looks good if you stay fit and healthy. We'll be shooting for a similar goal in Boston. Good luck!

qrkid - welcome. Good consistency so far. That's the way to build the engine - run every day even if only a little.

Back into it / Garbage Disposal: Thanks - and yeah, so we're basically all doing the same!

Hereford: Thanks. I am pretty encouraged how my training developes :-)

Hereford- Thanks for the good words. As for my weight training, I stick to low weight and high reps. I keep it very easy actually. Ex. 2 sets / 20 reps with 15lb dumbbells. Biceps curls, tricep extensions, shoulder raises, push ups, then I'll do 5 minutes of core and finish off with 2x20 of lunges, calf raises, and high knee extensions with a resistance band. I do weights the day after every workout or long run. I try not to overdue it because of all the running I do. I never really believed too much in weight training in the past but I see everyone doing it so it has to have some benefit. Hope this helps!

Kendo- Good to see you starting off the next cycle with a weekly mileage high.

AFRunnerNL- Welcome to the thread. Looks like you had a pretty solid week of quality workouts that covered XC, intervals, and tempos which should cover all your bases for a peak race at the 10K distance.

SPS- Another nice and consistent week of getting in some nice base work. Good to hear you got through the Sunday run well too.

Working Harder- Congrats on the solid HM PR! Sub-2:50 should be very doable with a few more months of training.

Hereford- Congrats again on the race. Looking forward to following your training through another cycle this spring.

Qrkid- Welcome back man. Looks like you are in a solid starting point. Also, I know a couple of people that have experimented with Hokas and hope it works out well for you.

Pikachu- Yes exactly, it helps to see guys like you, back into it and runnersfix all approaching the training with a similar philosophy (easy days easy) when it comes to easy runs even though we may be doing different workouts.

Hereford - thanks, I'm pretty geeked for sure! Making a big effort to slash some weight before beginning my build into Boston of which I'm thinking 16 weeks. Hopefully that gets me to the starting line healthy and at least 10lbs lighter and I can give a go at a 2:45 maybe. Now I just have to figure out a build :/

Hello all, great racing and training.

Last week was ok, nothing crazy at all.

Sunday November 30th, 14 miles, no time. The loop and 2 hard before running the loop.

Monday December 1st, 12.5 miles 68:48. First 3 to 4 was around low 5 pace, then settled in. I made a mistake of not wearing heavier pants, and about 9 miles in my legs got tight, which ended up causing me issues later in the week as I stressed my right pcl tendon a bit. Good run though.

Tuesday December 2nd, 10.2 66:00. Backed off for the run as I was not sure how my leg would feel. It was ok, not fantastic, but that's ok.

Wednesday December 3rd, 12.0 73:21, felt good, nothing crazy just kept the pace honest.

Thursday December 4th, 13 miles 1:30:00, easy, did not push at all as I was feeling tired before I even went to run.

Friday December 5th 9 miles 50:54, good run, quality effort.

Saturday December 6th 10 miles, 62:20, Nothing crazy. I had spent 3 hours on the roof prior to this putting lights up, so I really was not feeling it.

Overall 80.7 miles.

Have a good one all.

Awesome, man. Let's both try to aim for that 2:45-2:50 range. If our builds go well perhaps we can try to run together in Boston and pace each other.