Steve Ovett.

Of course they would. They're much younger!

Ovett was a great runner and competitor. Imagine Webb with the racing skills of Ovett? That would be a winning combination.

Well geez the guy's 59. He'd still beat you by a good half hour.

edward teach wrote:

a decent half marathon performance for a miler, but lets face it if he ran something like Philly, NYC, or Boston half today, he wouldn't be top 10.

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

Skuj wrote:

It needs to be said that 65:38 was not a very hard run for Ovett.

That's pretty well known to just about every one here. So, no, it didn't need to be said. Try to keep up.

Actually that was the first time anyone in this thread mentioned that it was not an all out effort. Tyr to keep up.

I grew up in Sheffield, and am only 2 years younger than Seb. My parents have been gone for 10 and 12 years now, but were very close friends to the Coes, Peter and Tina, for 35 years. I was fairly successful amongst the junior ranks, but gradually began to concentrate on my academics as the years went on. I have always remained a track fan, and like other Brit, enjoyed the golden era of English miling from Coe/ovett to Cram/Elliot. It was not an uncommon sight to see Seb out training growing up, and caused more than one tourist a double take out on Rivelin Valley Road. Reading the opening paragraph to this thread, I was reminded that Peter was once at our house, and I was home visiting for the holidays. I casually asked him if Seb had any sessions that winter that alluded to a sparkling summer. Of course, that answer was yes. He relayed to me that Seb had done a 10 mile training run in a shade over 45 minutes. Mind you, this was over undulating terrain outside of Sheffield with Peter driving the auto behind him (as were many of his training sessions). To my best recollection, this would have been during Christmas of 1978 or 1979. That being said, I would venture to submit that Seb's endurance was every bit as spot on as Ovett's. I personally timed Seb in 22 secs for a series of 4x200m runs in mid summer the week prior to his trip to Florence for a WR (800m? 1000m?). I believe that was 1981 or 1982. Again, it is difficult to recall the exact date. My point being, Seb's basic leg speed was every bit as good as Ovett's, as well. As alluded previously, it was a shame to see Ovett with such bad luck in LA. Rumour held that he was in the best shape he's ever been. These were the days before twitter and Facebook, so any rumblings that passed the rumour mill were hard to substantiate. Ovett had gone to San Diego to train prior to LA, as Seb had gone to Chicago. Brilliant talents all, with a sweep that could have been possible, as Crammy picked up silver to Coe's gold.

Pacman wrote:

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

That's pretty well known to just about every one here. So, no, it didn't need to be said. Try to keep up.

Actually that was the first time anyone in this thread mentioned that it was not an all out effort. Tyr to keep up.

Ummm...maybe nobody had bothered to mention it on this thread because it was so well known to just about every one here.

JFC, are you retarded or what?

coach...... wrote:

I wish everyone would stop with these threads

Rupp And lagat would obliterate ovett over 1500 and HM

One can only hope that you are joking.

Rupp would have ZERO chance over 1500.

Lagat would have nearly zero chance over HM.

' He relayed to me that Seb had done a 10 mile training run in a shade over 45 minutes. Mind you, this was over undulating terrain outside of Sheffield with Peter driving the auto behind him (as were many of his training sessions). '

Great post but this 10 miles would have been measured by the car mileometer ie inaccurate. Coe ran some good road races but never showed anthing on the track to show he could match Ovetts endurance

The 65 mins half marathon does not sound so fast nowadays but the WR was 2 mins slower back then plus he was not running flat out. I read he was running round with his training partner Matt, then decided to go on for the win.

A better measure of Ovetts endurance is his 4th in the English National xc over a tough 9 mile course. Back the this was a very competitive race. For comparison Cram also later ran the national and was out of the top 50

Ovett was a freakish talent. He still holds many of the Sussex County Junior records in a variety of distances. His 21.7 200m is legit and he was a fantastic long jumper too. He could have also played professional football (soccer) but he decided to stop playing because he got frustrated with having to rely on his team mates in order to win.

His winning streak of 42 consecutive races between 1977-1980 in 1500/mile races is a truly remarkable statistic and surely gives him credence to be ranked amongst the all time greats.

olde Brit wrote:

That story is a complete fabrication. It has usually been attributed to Niles Loughton as he has been known to do this sort of thing in the past. It was debunked quite some time ago. I am surprised this fellow fell for it. Poor sap.

Rubbish.

The half marathon win before his World Cup 1500 gold is well documented. It was in the press at the time and both wins are listed in all Ovett's race lists.

If he could run 65 mins in what was basically a fun/training run, then he was certainly capable of a couple of a couple of minutes faster.

All the other results Mr Binks mentions are also accurate and can be found on the internet and in publications for anyone bothering to look for them.

The only questionable stat is the 21.7 at Ilford in 77. I have no doubt Ovett was capable of such a feat, but all the listings I have of him do not mention competing at Ilford that year or running 21.7. He did record 21.7 in July 1975 in a National League match in Barking, so perhaps that is where the confusion lies.

It must be true, if it's on the Internet. Right, Deano?

The half marathon story is accurate. Ovett was due to compete (in Edinburgh?) but industrial action grounded the flight so he went to the race with training partner Matt Paterson, was given permission to compete and won it. The time may not be considered fast today but it was a competitive field (all well known road races in the UK in that period were very high standard) and Ovett won as he pleased.

He was one hell of a runner! In January 1978 he won the Inter Counties XC over 7 miles of hilly, snow covered ground beating Steve Jones into second place. In March he placed 4th in The National over a hilly nine miles; the men in front were Bernie Ford, Ian Stewart, Tony Simmons some of the best 10k runners in the world at the time. A few moths later he ran 1:44 for 800! Any of today's 1:44 men do that? Thought not!

Interestingly, Coe ran far quicker over 800 than Ovett but in major championships Ovett beats Coe 2-1. Make of that what you will endurance a bigger factor when multiple rounds have to be run?

Personally think that Ovett lost his driven hunger to dominate when he won his Olympic gold; he never seemed quite the same athlete after that. he chased records and the mighty dollar too much. Influence of Andy Norman?

ukathleticscoach wrote:

' He relayed to me that Seb had done a 10 mile training run in a shade over 45 minutes. Mind you, this was over undulating terrain outside of Sheffield with Peter driving the auto behind him (as were many of his training sessions). '

Great post but this 10 miles would have been measured by the car mileometer ie inaccurate. Coe ran some good road races but never showed anthing on the track to show he could match Ovetts endurance

That 10 miler was documented in Coe's own biography. It was in the "late" winter of 78/79, so early 79. In it he says he was running with 2 Yorkshire colleagues, Malcolm Prince & Andy Armitage. "He covered ten miles in three quarters of an hour,...at the end of which he was sick."

The point is, even if measured by a car mileometer (and there is nothing to suggest that this was the source of measurement) it wouldn't be that far out, probably less than 100m. And it doesn't matter whether it was 45:00 or 45:59 or even 47mins. What is important is that Coe had excellent endurance, certainly better that most other 800m guys and on a par with Ovett.

Coe didn't run anything on the track to match Ovett's 5000m ability, that is true, but he didn't need to. He showed world class endurance on the roads in Spring and Autumn.

In October 78 he beat Coghlan & McLoud over 4 miles in 17:54, beating then 2 Mile WR holder Brendan Foster's course record by 11 secs. Both Coghlan (later World 5000m champion) & McLoud (Olympic 10000m medallist) had run in the 13:20's on the track in 78, while Coe had run only 800s (apart from a single Mile win over Rono) that season.

In 80 Coe beat Cova over 7.5km in Italy in 20:59 & in 83 won the same race at Vigevano in 18:28 (this time over 6.75km) which is 13:40 pace for 5000 or 27:40 for 10k.

Again, this is no great shakes for today's distance runners, but I doubt there have ever been more than a couple of 800 guys capable of beating the likes of Cova, Coghlan & McLoud in races beyond 5000m.

Both Ovett & Coe had comparable endurance, which was at an incredible level for the era and the events in which they were focussing on on the track.

Interwebs R Us wrote:

It must be true, if it's on the Internet. Right, Deano?

Idiot. I said it was on the internet and in news/written publications at the time.

The internet tells us that WW2 was from 1939 to 1945, does it not? Are you saying that this can't be true because it can be found on the internet?

It's also in history books and we have witnesses to back it up. Same for Ovett's run.

[quote]mark b wrote:

Interestingly, Coe ran far quicker over 800 than Ovett but in major championships Ovett beats Coe 2-1. Make of that what you will endurance a bigger factor when multiple rounds? [quote]

I guess you forgot that Coe won the 1500 on both those occasions.

mark b wrote:

Interestingly, Coe ran far quicker over 800 than Ovett but in major championships Ovett beats Coe 2-1. Make of that what you will endurance a bigger factor when multiple rounds have to be run?

That's a silly comment to make re endurance from rounds. It had nothing to do with endurance, otherwise how was Coe able to beat Ovett in the 1500 at the end of 6 races in 8 days, but didn't have the endurance to beat him in the 3rd race after 3 races!?

Ovett's first win over Coe over 800 was in 78, with Ovett probably in his prime (not to mention a much more experienced championship performer) and Coe not yet the finished article. In 1980 Coe lost through dreadful tactics not due to lack of endurance.

Equally interesting that Ovett never beat Coe over 1500 (3-0) to Coe, which kind of negates the 2-1 lead Ovett has over 800. I don't read too much into either stat. Ovett clearly wasn't at his best in LA 84 or in 89, but then neither was Coe at his prime in 78. The only time they met when both were close to their career bests was Moscow 80.

As for the other things you mention about Ovett, I am in full agreement. He was a spectacular exponent on the country, something Coe wasn't designed for, and his range from 200 to half marathon was extraordinary.

didn't renato say that he drove behind coe in italy

he ran 30km in 1hr 30m i think he said

Deanouk wrote:

Interwebs R Us wrote:

It must be true, if it's on the Internet. Right, Deano?

Idiot. I said it was on the internet and in news/written publications at the time.

The internet tells us that WW2 was from 1939 to 1945, does it not? Are you saying that this can't be true because it can be found on the internet?

It's also in history books and we have witnesses to back it up. Same for Ovett's run.

Actually I said it's true, if it's on the Internet. Did I not? Not sure why you're twisting my words, Deano.

I assume you agree with me, which means you agree with someone you consider to be an idiot. Nice.

Interwebs R Us wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

Idiot. I said it was on the internet and in news/written publications at the time.

The internet tells us that WW2 was from 1939 to 1945, does it not? Are you saying that this can't be true because it can be found on the internet?

It's also in history books and we have witnesses to back it up. Same for Ovett's run.

Actually I said it's true, if it's on the Internet. Did I not? Not sure why you're twisting my words, Deano.

I assume you agree with me, which means you agree with someone you consider to be an idiot. Nice.

Then I apologise profusely. I read that as you being sarcastic, and thus implying the complete opposite.

Sorry.