Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/12

Now that is a good running story stonecutter! That made me laugh :P

Goal: Ramp up intensity, maintain volume throughout XC season.

Goal Race: State Divisional Meet 11/8

Goal for Race: A Goals: Advance to All-States, break 17. B Goal: Break 17:30 C Goal: Actually finish without passing out this year haha :P

Next race: Sixth duel meet 10/14 Goal for Race: Balls to the wall effort FTW hopefully. Trying to get the first team W of the season. It's on our home course which is a road (sidewalk) 2.85 miles. I'll probably have to run around 16 which would be a huge pr, but I think it's within my reach. I haven't gone out fast yet this season with fresh legs, so this should really test my limits.

M - 1m WU. 3.7m easy. Strides.

T - Race day. I changed into my uniform in my car and packed up all my stuff in my backpack (spikes, homework, car keys, etc.) I got out of my car to check if anyone else was out waiting for the bus yet. I saw other people so I went back to my car to get my stuff out and... my car's damn autolock feature had gone off. Everything was locked in my car, so I had to go to the meet without all that. I had to race in trainers... 1m WU. 3mile mildly hilly race in 18:03, and I was nipped at the line by someone... if only I had my spikes on. Quads were a little sore, but not a bad race I guess. .75m CD. Took the bus back to the high school, and had a friend drive me home so I could get my spare keys. Then I had to run back. Unfortunately I live 4 miles from my high school. It was a nice cool down.

W - 1m WU. Strides. 7.6 at 7:14 pace, didn't feel as easy as I would have liked, but it was ok.

T - 1m WU. Strides. Hard workout day on our course. 5x800 + 600 with 4 minutes rest in between each. 2:43 2:35 2:38 2:41 2:38 Then 1:50 for the 600. The variation in time was due to certain sections having tight turns, while others were pretty straight. Not gonna lie, this was a hard workout, that 600 was run on pure hate. .5m CD.

F - .5m WU bc I was late. Strides. 6.2m at 7:38 pace.

S - Day off. I wanna feel fresh for Tuesday.

S - 4.5m trails easy. I wanted to do around 6, but I started getting this stinging pain in the arch of my foot and that scared me... I'm hoping it's nothing, because I've gone almost a full year without injuring myself; I do not want to break that streak.

Total: ~38.42 Good week, not much to complain about. Tuesday will determine how I approach the rest of my season... whether or not I will push for that sub 17.

Some better perspective. In high school (18 years ago now, yikes!), I was a strong but not spectacular runner - 4:30s mile, 9:50s 2 mile, 16:10s XC. I stopped running when I got to college because I had to work and commute while going to school. I didn't run another step until shortly after my 30th birthday, when I was 196 lbs. Over the next 16 weeks, I ran under the premise that I was helping my younger brother train for a marathon, but of course I got suckered into running it, haha. Along the way, I managed a 5:40 mile and 1:33+ half. Marathon ended terribly, of course: 3:43.

Three months later, I started training more consistently. I managed a 19:00 5K and 1:29:5X HM. But still, I was typically running 5 days a week and averaging 30-40mi/week, throwing in a few 20 milers in training for good measure. That's when I ran the 3:12.

I think you have the talent to get close to or even dip under 3:15 - but I am just worried about your lack of marathon mileage base and lack of marathon experience. Again, I encourage a more modest goal and I HIGHLY recommend the pace group strategy. Try to make the first marathon a positive experience. Like me, you can set your sights on faster goals down the line when you have a few more years of running in your legs.

I have gone from 3:43 to 3:12 to 3:07 to 2:59 to 2:55 (with a few blowups thrown in the mix along the way for good measure) over the last 6 years. Save the more aggressive effort for later. :)

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Stone Cutter-I was in NJ this weekend so I ran in the same miserable rain you speak of. Not quite the same story but I forgot my running shorts (remembered everything else) so I had to wait until the running store opened at 10 to get hosed on buying full price just to run in the rain. Given your short story and the conditions makes the tempo all that more impressive!

pikachu-You are definitely looking in sub 30 shape given your workouts. Good luck this week

Netwerk Errer-Sorry to hear about your accident Friday, out of curiosity were you wearing blinkie lights? I hate when I am lit up like a Christmas tree and cars still choose to buzz me too close-the thing I hate running most in the dark. I hope the sprain heals up, sounds like you know how to manage it from experience.

Slartzio-Nice week with some good quality!

ghola-Wow, awesome job on the half today! Enjoyed reading your race report and way to hold it together at the end for a very solid time

Matthias-Doing those interval workouts in your Weds conditions will definitely pay off come race day from mental perspective for sure.

xenonscreams-Congrats on the race yesterday...you've been able to consistently put in mileage lately and still run the time you did last year. Hopefully this sets you up well for the rest of the season

Forcerunner-Awesome week and knock on wood but we are looking like we'll have good weather next weekend. Hopefully we get a chance to meet up prior as I think half and full start together.

TheGarbageDisposal-right back into the swing of training I see. When is your next race that you'll "train through" and dominate?

Np1112-I thought last weekend was your last long run? You know you are an animal when 30 is no longer considered long. Great week once again...looking very solid

Distance Fan-I would start out around 3:20 pace for the first 16 miles and if you feel really good try to dial it down over the final 10. If it feels manageable go to 20 and then try to bring it down. You dont want to go out at 3:15 and run a 3:40 but go out at 3:20 and run 3:15-3:20 range

Kendo-I would say 80% /60% but see what works for you in your taper and just go by how you are feeling.

Lakerunner-Sorry to hear about your race. If it's any consolation a few other people I know fell short of their goal times today. As StoneCutter mentioned in his post, do you practice eating the same meals on your training runs, drinking the same amount of fluid, etc? Changing too much on race day (or the week of which it sounds like you did with the water) can really affect things. either way still a great time!

HS_Runner_XC-Awesome 400 workout, looking forward to seeing how you do in your season

Goal: Columbus sub 2:35

Weekly: 85.7

YTD: 4011.6

Mon: 10 E AM , 5 E PM on treadmill

Tues: Intervals 6x800 (2:38,2:34,2:34,2:31,2:30,2:30,2:32). Rests in the 2:50 range - 10 minutes of planks

Weds: 8 E AM, 5 E PM - 10 minutes of planks

Thurs: 8 E AM , 5 E PM - 10 minutes of planks

Fri: 9 with 4 tempo (5:47,5:46,5:36,5:24). 3.97 technically - 10 minutes of planks

Sat: 8 E, 6 E PM --both done in a miserable rain

Sun: 12 E AM @ 7:18…with 4 moderately paced miles -10 minutes of planks

First real week of taper. Feeling pretty good although a few lbs above where I want to be. Plan to dial it even further down this week and hopefully the stars align next weekend for the race:)

Awesome weeks by everyone so far.

More sound advice. I was going to wait an additional year of running (I started in June 2012), but I had two injuries (stress fracture in my calcernus - out for 5 months & Achilles tendonitis/tendonosis - out for a month). I figured my body my not last another year. I thought with another year I might be able to get a BQ, run Boston, and then run more sensible distances like 1/2 marathons ;)

I have liked the training (mostly). However, I think I remember you have children too, so you understand trying not to encroach into your time with them with your hobby (obsession). Getting up at 4:30 am 3 days a week to run gets hard!

Goal: CIM 12/7 @sub-2:50

44 y.o., 148 lbs, 6'0", 2 kids, 1 wife

Location: San Diego, CA (Carmel Valley area)

73.5 miles this week. Finished with a half marathon today using it as a MP session. I wanted to race it but held back to avoid jeopardizing the upcoming week of training. Only 8 weeks left to CIM.

M - 8 easy

T - med long run 14 @ 7:15

W - 9.4 easy

T - 11 incl 5x1m @ 5:45 avg

F - 8 easy

S - 10 easy

S - Long Beach half 13.1 @ 6:20; felt pretty easy but I am not yet confident that I could hold that pace for 26.2. Two months left to build the final pieces of the engine though, focusing on MP work.

3 days of strength/core.

Cutter - another good week. The shorts story is hilarious. I love running in the rain though (assuming that it's not bottomless).

Pikachu - your 'floating' pace of 6:17 is a borderline tempo effort for me. I'm jealous, man!

Pewow - looking good. Hope your sub-30 effort works out.

Netwerk - sorry to hear about the sprain. 15 of them is a lot. Do you think they occur more frequently because you've had so many? I have heard that once you have a few you're more likely to suffer them again.

Slartzio - smart to take the rest day. One day off to nurse a cold is better than 3 weeks off to cure pneumonia.

Ghola - great race! Sounds like a tough second half. Way to hang in there. I don't think I'll ever sniff 1:13. It must feel great.

Matthias - is a mini-tornado really stubby? :) Seriously though, stay safe out there.

Xenon - way to hang tough despite not feeling 100%. Normally when I feel sluggish one week the next week is great. Hope you crush next week's race.

Garbage - 17:11 is a solid result so close to your marathon win. And then 20 miles the next day?! You're in a different galaxy from me.

Force - great mileage. Good luck with the taper. Don't do anything nutty. The hay is in the proverbial barn. And good luck in the race next Sunday. Looking forward to the report.

Np - awesome mileage again. 30@goal pace is strong. You sound fit and mentally tough at the moment.

Distance - 3:15 might be possible. It's hard to tell not knowing your long term mileage and progression. Based on your recent times though, personally, I would back off a little and aim for 3:20-25 and shift into a faster gear after mile 20 if you feel good. If the weather is bad, then I'd perhaps start at 3:30 pace and adjust based on how you're feeling later in the race.

Kendo - good luck with the taper and upcoming race. I would not taper mileage too much. Your already at a fairly low volume. Cutting back mileage too much might have you feeling flat on race day.

Lake - bummer about your calf. Hope you heal quickly. If so, perhaps you can find another race to jump into soon to take advantage of your fitness.

HS Runner - looks like you're on track to set some PRs this season. Keep it up!

Nop - good race. Next time remember the spikes ;)

Cmm - I'm sure that's all water weight! Have a great taper.

Hereford wrote:

2 kids, 1 wife

Haha, I guess the opposite would be even funnier. :)

T - 11 incl 5x1m @ 5:45 avg

What was the recovery on those repeats? For what it's worth, I did that exact same workout off 1/4mi jogs when I was in 16:53 shape earlier this year. And I don't think I have that type of speed right now, so if you did a similar session, I would say you are in GREAT shape at this point in the cycle.

Long Beach half 13.1 @ 6:20; felt pretty easy but I am not yet confident that I could hold that pace for 26.2.

I felt the exact same way when I did my "simulator" a few weeks ago. I am still not sure I can hold that pace for 26.2mi, but there's only one way for us to find out, right?

Goals:

Place high at XC meets

Mon- 8 at 6:50

Tue- 1 up, 8x 800 w/1:1 jogging rest (2:36, 35, 31, 27, 29, 36, 32, 31), 2 down

Wed- 2 during an XC coed scavenger hunt (45 min of jogging/quick picture taking) then 6 miles at 6:35

Thur- 6 total w/6x hard hill repeats (full rest)- tired that day

Fri- 6 at 6:45- 7:00 pace + 4x striders

Sat- 1 up, XC AWAY TRI MEET- 1st/CR, 3 down

Sun- 10 at 6:31

Total: 54 miles

Another solid training week for me with a in-season weekly mileage high. We have 4 more races left in the season: One is an unimportant dual meet at another tough/slow course; one is a home meet, where I will be pushing the pace from the gun to go for the course record; The other two meets are important championships. The intensity will definitely be ramped up while he mileage will slowly be lowered so that I will peak in a few weeks.

The 8x 800 session went very well. It was run a little quicker than 5k pace on the dirt road I did my fast tempo on. I was fairly consistent with my splits, as not every 800 had the same elevation gain. I averaged around 2:32 for the whole workout, which comes out to be pretty accurate for the effort I was doing. It was a tougher workout, but I ran controlled and felt smooth. I definitely didn't push too hard, as I could have done at least a few more if I was asked to.

The course we ran at was the hilliest course we have ran on all season. The first 400 is all downhill and then it goes into the forest where it is constantly going uphill and a little bit downhill. There were also a couple short steep hills in the middle of the course that we had to negotiate. I ran behind another runner, who tried to push the pace the first mile, but slacked off during the second. I felt easy the whole race until 400m to go, when we had to run back up the steep hill we ran down during the start. We were neck and neck at the bottom of the hill and with about 300m to go until I pulled away, winning by 8 seconds. It felt like a tempo run with an all out 400m hill at the end. When I finished the race director told me that I had set a new course record by 6 seconds, running 17:51 (the course is that hilly). The record was set 3 weeks ago by our league's #1 runner (It probably wasn't all out), who broke the record set in 1997. I was really happy with the result, so hopefully I'll be able to compete with our leagues #1 runner in three weeks.

Finally, the guy who I beat ran a dual meet at the course we will be running for New Englands; he ran a solo 16:15. This course is extremely flat, which is a nice reward after running on a bunch of slow/tough courses throughout the season. I definitely believe that I have a shot at a sub 16 5k on that course in four weeks.

Hopefully I don't come off as cocky; I just get excited and begin to ramble when I am running well.

I hope everyone else had a good week!

Goal Race: Houston Marathon

Week #1 out of 15

Mon- 8 miles / light weights

Tue- 10 miles at 7:01 pace / strides

Wed- 12 miles at 6:16 pace. Progressed slightly the last 3 miles (6:01, 5:50, 5:46)

Thur- 8 miles at 7:03 pace / light weights

Fri- 8 miles at 7:01 pace / strides

Sat- 12 miles at 6:18 pace. Progressed the last 4 miles (5:42, 5:32, 5:28, 5:09)

Sun- 8 miles at 7:04 pace / light weights

Total- 66

Nothing crazy this week. The progressing on Saturdays run. I just felt good and just kept pushing the pace. My last half mile was probably around 2:30 or just under. I will be starting workouts this next week and my mileage will increase to around 90. A lot of marathon pace workouts ahead of me. Its going to be different than what I'm used but it's what's needed. Ill comment this week.

Will comment on everyone's week tomorrow.

cmm268- I was wearing a headlamp and had full reflective gear. I resembled slimer from ghostbusters, that's how reflective I was.

Hereford- Yeah, that's what my sports therapist says. I have had 12 on my left ankle where I had a double fracture of my fib and tib and grade 3 deltoid ligament rupture from a bad tackle playing soccer. I never properly rehabed that injury and it causes pretty much all of the injuries I get now because my femur rotates to compensate putting my hip, knee and ankle in a heavily loaded position. My hyperactivity and love of beer cause some problems too :p.

Cutter - 400m jogs for the recovery. Not sure how much time they were. Probably about 2min or so.

And yes, only one way for us to find out. I'm feeling pretty good at this point in the cycle. But I'll get a better idea 4 weeks from now when I've been able to bank several more longer MP runs. I'm doing another HM in 5 weeks as a last tuneup race and will give that one a bit more effort, with a goal pace around 6:10 if the weather cooperates. If that one doesn't feel too rough then I'll feel ready for a 6:20-30 pace the the 26.2 in Dec.

Stone: amazing story! I was waiting for you to say that your shorts fell down by the ladies haha. You have MGP dialed it! Good call on the word doc. Using it now. One friends wife just had their first baby this week too. Best friends are always there for each other. I met him at the hospital on Tuesday so he could get out and have someone to run with.

Pikachu: another good comeback week. 617s are floating, huh, awesome! What surfaces do you typically run on?

Netwek: ouch! Glad it was just a minor sprain and not much much worse. Hope you get back to normal soon!

Slart: solid week. Very close to 35 mpw with missing a day. Rather see you rested up instead of forcing a day and prolonging the cold. Good call

Ghola: Very nice half! Sounds like a tough course. Do you plan on getting into a more flat half?

Matthias: good call on the rest days. Sounds like you body needed it after this week. Hope they are back under you this coming week.

Garbage: What is your mcnugget total for this week?

Force: what website or program did you use to check your gps data and route? Run fast this coming weekend! Looking forward to your results.

Distance fan: Rough week on your feet! I think the best predictors for a marathon are your long runs with MP. I don’t think I could do 12 @ MGP at the end of a 22 mile run. I would say target something near that. Possibly start out conservative and then progress into things if you can. My brother is doing monumental for his first and I think he should be 315-325 also. But I am recommending him start out closer to 325-330 because of it being his first, and wanting him to have a good race experience. Rather than go out at 310-315 and be miserable for the end of the race.

Cmm: Ahhhh 85 mile taper weeks! Lovely haha. Solid looking taper week. Cant wait till your race! I wouldn’t worry TOO much about the weight. I would hate for you to miss out on some carb loading trying to hit “x” weight before the race. But I think I know what your post meant. Haha. Youre right. I do have a problem when 30 isnt a “long” run anymore. I averaged out my long runs for this cycle, right at 30 haha.

Hereford: 2 kids and just 1 wife. Interesting haha. 2 months is a lot of time to get in MGP work. Don’t let one “rough” race get to you. I felt the exact same after last weeks long run. I was contemplating changing my goals and even looking into bailing on the 100. Then I had a really good workout this weekend. There will always be more downs that ups. Just learn from them all and you will get there! Thanks for the compliments. Mental toughness is something I have been working on. Its tough to learn.

Runfix: Looks good. Are you going to be keeping the weight routine once big mileage weeks come in? Love me some long MGP runs! I cant remember, are you in the south east? I think my coach just moved to the state you live in.

40k of very easy running around Portland on my end. Feels very weird to have this much time off, but I'm trusting Pfitzinger.

Anyway, quick comments:

Stone: I can totally relate to that. When I started running, I used an old pair of soccer shorts for years, and on one run the string finally broke. I spent a comparable amount of energy to you keeping them up. Glad to hear you got through it OK.

Garbage: Was the 5k on a really tough course?

NP112 and cmm: stay sane during the taper, guys. You've both got great deeds ahead of you!

Lakerunner: I'm sorry the race didn't go the way you planned, but I admire your determination in finishing it. Sub 3 will come if you keep your hand in the game.

Heal up quick Matthias!

M 10 easy

T 11 w/ 2mi tempo, 8x400, 1mi hard

W 9 easy

Th 10 easy

F 9 w/ 20min fartlek (15,30,45,60,90,120,90,60,45,30,15 sec on with even recovery periods)

Sa 8 easy

Su 14 easy

tot 70.7, 6:58/mi avg

tues: 2mi hard tempo on the road in 10:30(5:19,5:11). then 4min shuffling around, then 8x400m on the grass in 77-78 with 60sec jogs, then 4.5min jog back to the road, where we did a 1 mile pretty hard on dirt/road. i ran 4:49.4 which is technically a PR. first half is dirt, 2nd road so i definitely negative split by a lot. probably split 2:30/2:20ish

we did this workout sept 16th in 11:20/76s/5:05 so this is a big improvement.

Goal: Amsterdam Marathon PR (3:21 currently) (10/19)

Weekly: 33.75

YTD: 1675

Mon: Weights and core

Tues: 8.25 with 5k race in 20:07

Weds: Rest

Thurs: 7 @ 7:54 with 8x100m strides

Fri: Weights and core

Sat: 6.5 with XC 10k in 44:14

Sun: 12 @ 8:25 (ish)

Pretty decent week for me, 5k on Tuesday was faster again and almost down to sub 20 again, my watch decided to not work so I think I maybe could have hit sub 20 if I'd have had that, but maybe not. It was really windy as well so on a still day I reckon it was worth sub 20.

Saturday was the first official cross country race of the season, cross country races in England tend to be pretty hilly but this one isn't too bad, still 3 or 4 hills to negotiate but nothing soul destroying. Patches of mud in places but nothing serious. Ended up finishing 300th out of 590. The XC's are always sure to put you in your place, so many good club runners. 4 minutes and 2 seconds faster than when I ran this course 2 years ago (though I'd only been running for 3 months then and the weather was worse), so reasonably pleased with that.

Watch packed in again for my Sunday run so the pace is a guess bazsed on how I was going and roughly when I got back.

1 week to go now! Exciting times! I've adjusted my goal to just a PR, as I think 3:15 is out of reach, the fitness is coming but too little too late after my early cycle setbacks. Going to go out at 7:30 pace and adjust based on how I feel. I think I'll probably fade, but hopefully can hang on for 3:20ish.

Np1112- Yeah, I'll always have the weights the day after workouts. It's really nothing crazy, though. I usually start about 10-15 minutes after my run and it'll take about 20 minutes to finish. Light weight and high reps pretty much with core as well. And yeah, I'm from Florida. The weather is awful for training but I make it work. Hopefully the cool air comes soon! Where did your coach move to?

Getting this done a little bit late again, but here goes.

M - AM 32 min, PM 68:30 w/ moderate pace for second half (6:30ish). Strides.

T - Hill repeats - kind of random lengths and efforts, accumulating about 12 minutes. 66 min on the run.

W - AM 20:30 plus 30 min bike PM - 60 min easy

Th- Unplanned off again.

F - 50 min, strides

Sa- Mostly tempoed an 8k race in 29:49, 60 min total.

Su- 1:57:30 hilly long run. Longer than I meant to go, honestly.

Total: 474.5 minutes

Feel like I haven't done much on hills and am pretty weak on them generally so I did a hill workout on Tuesday. Probably will do a few more over the coming months.

Saturday's race I mostly tempoed and paced some of our runners who were going for something around 6 flat pace. Second mile was slow for some reason - I remember there being a pretty awkward pass in there, and we might not have gotten back on pace for a while. Rough 1600m splits were (varsity coach had marked out every 400) 5:57, 6:12, 6:00, 6:00, 5:40. Felt pretty good, but the last mile was definitely tougher than I would have hoped it would feel.

Sunday it had been a while since I'd run some of the routes and misjudged the time it would take to get home as wanted 1:45 or less. Good news is that my legs actually feel pretty great today.

Anyway, some quick comments:

The Stone Cutter, that story is pretty hilarious. The image of someone running along while giving themselves a wedgie periodically is just priceless.

Good luck to Netwerk Errer and Matthias in recovering from their injuries!

Lakerunner: Sorry to hear things didn't work out. 5 liters of water a day doesn't necessarily sound totally excessive to me, but I guess it depends strongly on what your body is used to. I'd probably suggest not changing too much from your usual long run preparation while getting ready for the marathon. It can be hard because you're (likely) in a new city, travel may mess up your usual schedule, and for something like a marathon which you have to prepare so long for and can only do so often, there's so much pressure to get everything right that you sometimes do weird and stupid things. By the time you get to race week you should know what things work pretty well for you, and also know that most changes you can make are more likely to hurt you than help you. As regards dehydration I'd probably try to address that mostly in the hour before and during the race if conditions call for it.

Stonecutter- Lol that is a funny story even though I bet it got annoying during the run itself. I bet people who saw you thought you were crazy or something lol. But great 4x1.5m workout. Changing it up with the reps always helps give the mind time to not panick about hitting your splits from the same workout that you could have done. Nice week!

Pikachu- You're slowly getting there! You seem to be very patient with it which is smart. What are your PR's by the way? I know you're fast just wasn't sure exactly. Floating at 6:17 pace must be nice since you're just getting back at it.

Pewow- Nice 2 mile workout on Thursday. I think you should break 30. That workout alone suggests it to me. With the decrease in mileage you should be feeling great and ready to get after it. Good luck.

Netwerk Errer- Dang, sorry to hear about your ankle. Must suck since you did very well in that time trial. Good thing you're walking now at least. Hopefully your good for your marathon. Ice and ibuprofen work best for me.

Xenonscreams- Nice race! You tied your PR from last year while dealing with injury the week of. I would be happy with it and get after it my next race. Keep the confidence up!

GarbageDisposal- Nice workouts! Was that 5k all out? Or at altitude? Just wondering but what pace was that 20 miler? You said easy but are 20 milers ever easy lol.

Sunday - Twin Cities Marathon (2:43)

Monday - 3.5 miles with my ex GF. Tired, but not too sore

Tuesday - 2 mile WU, 8x400 @71-72 average, 1 mile cooldown

Wednesday - 4 miles easy

Thursday - 3 am, 9 pm

Friday - 4 am, 9 pm

Saturday - 10.5 easy

Sunday - Chicago Marathon - 1/2 mile warmup, First mile in 4:55, stopped, ran 1.5 with my ex GF. Then paced 13-26.2 as a blind guide

Weekly mileage (M-Su): 64

The Stone Cutter: I think it's time to get new shorts with a drawstring.... or half tights!

Netwerk Errer: Sorry about the ankle man. I'm sure if you cross train this week, it wouldn't cause you to lose any fitness. Any chance you could tape your ankle for the time being?

Ghola: You get to finish on a track, right? It's one of my bucket list races (for sometime in my life).

Matthias: Suck neg splitting on the workout. Whole plan to do that?

TheGarbageDisposal: You guys ever do trail races out there? Maybe not a 5k or something, but like a 10-15k trail race would be fun, if you threw away times.

Np1112: How were the pancakes? Nice 30 too! I'm not sure if I'll ever have the guts to go longer than a full marathon. Maybe if it was a trail race.

Lakerunner: I'd agree with electrolyte balance. Could be salt issues too. During races, I pretty much only drink gatorade, which helps with the electrolyte and salt issues. Sorry about the race though. I had a number of friends blow up pretty bad.