Best legit 10K in History

What was interesting as well were two of Steve Cram's comments (as he was calling the race with Brendan Foster).

In the early stages of the race, he mentioned Wang Junxia's 29:13 when the splits were coming up, and then said "..well, I don't really want to talk about that too much..."

Then, as the race was hotting up and Paula was pouring it on, he was a bit more animated and said to Brendan "That world record shouldn't even be on the books, and I know a lot of other athletes think that way as well!"

Now, for me, that was the first time I've heard a senior figure in athletics say anything in public about the Chinese records (despite the fact that most of the world recognizes they're bollocks).

Martin

I think you made a typo- Junxia ran 29:31. What makes things especially suspicious, is that despite a fairly long career, Junxia's next best times are 30:49, 30:50, 31:01, 31:02. The evidence would support the "lap short" hypothesis, even excluding any doping.

Paula's time is an improvement on her PB of 25 seconds.

In other news from the European Championships today, world-class 800-meter runner Yuri Borzakovsky continues his quest to become a mediocre 400-meter runner, finishing fifth in his heat, but still managing to qualify for the next round:

Heat 1:

1 Marc Raquil (Fra) 45.70secs (Q)

2 David Canal (Spa) 45.75 (Q)

3 B Swillims (Ger) 46.20 (Q)

4 Radek Zacchoval (Cze) 46.25 (Q)

5 Y Borzakovskiy (Rus) 46.28 (Q)

6 A Attene (Ita) 46.54

7 David McCarthy (Irl) 47.30

8 Viktors Lacis (Lat) 47.40

Is anyone else reminded of world-class basketball player Michael Jordon, who abandoned his sport in a quest to become a mediocre baseball player?

Oh, sorry for the off-topic comment on Borza. A great performance by Paula.

You guys are completely biased - if Paula Ratcliffe was Chinese or Russian the finger of suspicion would be pointed at her immediately with her big improvement over the last year.

It was also interesting to read the posts refering to the London marathon a few months ago with several people writing in accusing Khalid Khannouchi of dubious practices but yet no one raised any doubts over Ratcliffe's performance which was just as remarkable.

Wang Junxia never had a positive test so her time is ligit.

If you are suspicious of Wang Junxia then you must be suspicious of Ratcliffe otherwise you are just being inconsistent.

When has Junxia ever competed outside of China?

Radcliffe has a documented history of ever increasing times, has competed in countless international meets that were subject to testing. Where the hell did Junxia come from? Out of nowhere, what has she done since? Nothing! Suspicous? Very!

None of us have ever seen Wang Junxia or Paula Radcliffe stick a needle in their arm so all we have to go on are suspicions, heresay, and innuendo.

The fact that a number of wang's training partners have been busted as has he coach automatically make her times look suspicious. Radcliffe has never been associated with drug use even second hand.

Paula sleeps high. Wang slept whereever the politburo told

her to lay down, and inject, I mean eat her turtle soup.

Was Junxia not at the 96 Olympics, winning medals & passing drug tests? Have not Teter, Jacobs, Khannouchi, & the others who are constantly being accused of doping travelled & passed tests, too? Why no comments about Radcliffe's body being either sexy or manly? Gotta agree with marathonman. Be consistent & besmirch all or shut up until you have proof.

marathonman wrote:

You guys are completely biased - if Paula Ratcliffe was Chinese or Russian the finger of suspicion would be pointed at her immediately with her big improvement over the last year.

It was also interesting to read the posts refering to the London marathon a few months ago with several people writing in accusing Khalid Khannouchi of dubious practices but yet no one raised any doubts over Ratcliffe's performance which was just as remarkable.

Wang Junxia never had a positive test so her time is ligit.

If you are suspicious of Wang Junxia then you must be suspicious of Ratcliffe otherwise you are just being inconsistent.

If there is any more clearly tainted mark in track and field, I don't know what it is. Look at the evidence: CONSISTENT performances in *foreign locations* of 30:49 to 31:02, then BAM 29:31 when she is in the Chinese national meet where only Chinese officials have to sign off on the record (Paula's "big" improvment of 25 seconds is eminently reasonable by comparison). This was at a time and under a coach where there were drug busts, controversies, etc.. They took E. German pharmacalogy and combined it with official corruption to produce a shameful result....29:31.

"She passed drug tests"...so did Mourhit,the Olympic XC skiers, Tour deFrance cyclists, etc., until decent tests were produced for epo. That record is complete garbage.

The only record near as corrupt is FloJo's 10.49 with "0.0 wind reading". Yeah, right.

I betcha Junxia ran 24 laps.

Even if she ran 24 laps, she finished her 3000m in 8 minutes and 15 secs! What about that controversial finish!

Paula passed drug tests, too. Just like the rest, just like Bauman (another anti-drug campaigner). I hope Paula's not cheating, but I am curious how folks living up the old dirt road in Uranus decide who to suspect & who is clean. Instead of "Uranus" how about "Uracist?"?

EXCUSE ME, Wang Junxia also won the 1996 Olympic 5000 meters, in the Good Ol USA!!!

I, for one, believe that her WR is completely legit.

JasonLiveFromChina.....

See Paula follows a more linear path of improvement. Granted she did improve by 25 seconds in the 10k, but you must remember that the 10k isn't run a lot.

Please tell me you wouldn't think Geb was on drugs if he broke the 10k record, 5k record, and I believe 3k record all in the same race!!!!

That just doesn't happen due to normal training. Also notice that Wang ran her only close times in China. Paula has run her fast times all over.

Also, just because they pass drug tests doesn't mean they are clean. I just got done reading Speed Trap, by Ben Johnson's coach, and he was doped up forever and never got caught.

Testing is always light years behind the new drugs.

Mentioning Wang's 2nd/3rd best performances is a weak argument. Deena Drossin has run 30:50 and her next best is 31:51. Hell, my best 10K is 30:38 and my next best is 31:41. Athletes are very capable of "popping" one and not being drugged. So, for Wang running 30:50 as her 2nd best is mute when it comes to arguments. Give credit where credit is due.

Okay, take out that argument........

But tell me this...When has Wang come close to ANY of her best times at ANY distance outside of China?

Your 2nd fastest performance should be close in at least 1 of several events, (15,5,10)

Also, what would u think if Geb went sub 26, and on his way run a sub 7:20 last 3k?

You are all missing the point, and that is that is very likely that Wang was not even a real female at all. It is entirely possible that in a country with a billion plus population to pull talent from, the government sought out xxy female or xyx male children sorted them into passable females and trained them to be very good distance runners. These are not hermaphodites per say(some are), but are normal looking female/young male athletes that either have more testosterone(female) or more estrogen (male). I couldn't find much info on this, but a show was on last week on the Discovery Channel, and I couldn't pull my eyes away. The show covered everything from sexual development(very explicit photos) to physical traits. The long and short was that some look like males with female genitalia, some females with underdeveloped make genitalia, some are normal females with more testosterone and no internal or external differences, some males with higher estrogen levels, and no noticable differences. Then there were the ones that had very noticable differences. Females with very masculine characteristics, and males with very effeminate features. The funny thing was that these were fiercely heterosexual people so it wasn't a sexual thing at all, just a hormonal abnormality. Now we get into the area of gender testing. This was the basis of the show, namely that the gender line is a blurred one, what exactly are these people classified as? It got me to thinking about the rumors I heard about the Chinese teams from that time-that they were all really young boys on female hormones. I know it sounds stupid, but what if they weren't on artificial hormones, but on the hormones that nature gave them. From what I understand in the 92' Games, the I.O.C. had as it's main goal as is the goal for every Olympics(true worldwide representation/participation), to bring back into the fold, the highest populated country, who as you remember hadn't been in the games in a while due to various political, and idealogical differences with the rest of the world;it was China. There was a story circulating at the time that many consolations had to be made in order for this goal to become a reality. One of these was the gender test. The Chinese claimed that it was somehow a cultural insult for their women to have to be tested(wasn't it clear that their women were women, anything to the contrary might upset their athletes and this was not acceptable), along with other guidelines about how their athletes should be tested for drugs...that a Chinese official had to be involved in every step of the process. This was needed, they claimed, because they and their athletes still had a great mistrust of the western world, there could be mistakes(read frame-ups) and it was non-negotiable to not have a Chinese rep(there were even rumors that they were not tested at all). If the I.O.C. wanted that talent in The Games, they must agree to the stipulations. Basically, there was a sellout, and the athletes at those games had two sets of rules, one for the Chinese, one for everyone else. I know this sounds like a conspiracy theory, but if you think about back room deals in America, it isn't a far stretch to see it done on the international sports scene. The problem for the Chinese came in the following international competitions. They had had a taste of worldwide fame in sport, and they wanted more, but they found that trying to drive the same hard bargain again wasn't going to fly, but they were hooked they would compete anyway, and send an even bigger team to America. They enterd the 96' Games with the same hopes of worldwide dominance, but what they got was utter disgrace. More that 25 Chinese athletes busted for bigtime usage in all disciplines. 2000 was no better, with the Chinese federation itself sending a watered down team that still had around six positive tests, and a swimmer busted for smuggling drugs into Australia! It is a lot to digest, but it does make one wonder, a billion people, xxy, hard training, the times a better than average high school boy might post. Just Food For Thought!

Lyle The Effeminate Heterosexual!

Those accusing me of being inconsistent in accepting Paula?s European record as legitimate whilst rejecting Junxia?s 29:31 are themselves guilty of hypocrisy, in my opinion.

There is simply too much circumstantial evidence surrounding both Ma J. and his stable of athletes to ignore.

Let?s look at some of the facts;

In 1993, the only year of Chinese domination in women?s distance running, Junxia set three world records in a single week. Prior to 1993, she was not ranked in the top 50 in any of those events.

In Stuttgart in the same year, Chinese women won every distance event from 800 to 10000. Two years later, in Gothenburg, not a single Chinese athlete advanced to a final. In 1991, two Chinese athletes won medals in the 10,000m.

Not a single male athlete from China has ever approached anything remotely resembling a world class time at a distance event.

At the world swimming championships in 1994, Chinese athletes won 12 of 16 events, despite having only 7 swimmers in the top 25 prior to 1993. Chinese swimmers were subsequently banned from international competition (as a nation) by FINA in 1996, and several swimmers were banned individually for drug taking as recently as Sydney 2000. Some were also detained at Australian customs (and deported) when drugs were found mixed in with their training kits.

China?s international sporting reputation was in tatters following the scandals of their swimmers and the suspension of Ma J by the Chinese government in 1995. This just happened to coincide with the launch of their bid to host the Olympics in 2008. Being unable to afford any further drug or doping scandals, it is widely believed that the government allowed Ma to return to coaching only if he could produce clean athletes. Thus China?s reputation is restores, the past scandals forgotten, and the Olympic bid a success.

All of this points to systematic use and abuse of performance enhancing drugs (Chinese swimmers were unknown to anyone outside of their own team only WEEKS before smashing 5 world records and winning 6 of 8 gold medals at the world short course championships in 1993).

The hypocrisy, especially where Jason is concerned, is staggering. He?s quite happy to refer to KK as a "druged-up ?", but sees nothing untoward about a Junxia going from outside the top 50 to multiple world record holder within a week. Both have passed drug tests, both have maintained their innocence. Yet Jason chooses to defend the Asian athlete (curiously possessing the identical physical attributes that Jason so publicly adores) and denounce the Moroccan-American.

Others have suggested that I?m not suspicious of Radcliffe because she happens to be British. Believe me when I tell you that, being born in Ireland, I have no emotional attachment to British athletes per se ? especially when one is just about ready to lap our of our "cailins", Sonia O.

So let?s try and apply some circumstantial evidence of our own to Paula?s remarkable year in 2002:

Is there a history of athletes in any sport in Britain systematically using performance-enhancing drugs?

Has Radcliffe produced results that are inconsistent with her previous achievements? (ie, did her world ranking in any event increase dramatically in the last year? The last 5? The last 10?)

Has the national federation ever suspended her coach?

Is there a legacy of distance running in her home country that includes records and championships by both men and women?

I?ll leave it up to those defending the legitimacy of Junxia to decide whether or not these questions are "mute" (I think the author meant to say "moot" ? at least I hope he did).

As others have said, passing a drugs test is, unfortunately, no measure of an athlete?s guilt or innocence. Athletes and performances need to be looked at in an entire context. Athletes don?t train in a vacuum ? each is a product of his/her surroundings. To ignore the circumstances relating to an athlete, his/or her coach or their federation is to miss the truth.

Radcliffe is clean --- Junxia is not.

Martin