Hello Renato,
Would you know the training of Italian Daniele Meucci leading up to his day of victory in Zurich today. Does he follow a schedule similiar to Baladini?
Hello Renato,
Would you know the training of Italian Daniele Meucci leading up to his day of victory in Zurich today. Does he follow a schedule similiar to Baladini?
It would be nice! But I doubt it, given that his coach is Massimo Magnani. Anyway, I saw Meucci in NYC Marathon and he was quite good running the whole marathon with Yuki Kawauchi.
It would be also interesting to know something about Valeria Straneo’s training
Here you can read an old excerpt of his trainings in 2009:
GIORNO PRIMA SEDUTA SECONDA SEDUTA
01 Mattina: 1h di corsa rigenerativa + allunghi
Pomeriggio: Al campo riscaldamento e molta reattività con allunghi in progressione sugli 80 metri
02 mattina Al campo riscaldamento e R.S. per i 1500 con 3x150 sui 21”+500 in 1’13”; 5’ pausa attiva+600 in 1’29”; 5’ pausa attiva; 400 in 56”2; 5’ pausa attiva e velocità alattacida con 5x60 forti
03 Mattina: Pregara: 30’ di corsa+allunghi sull’erba+500 in 1’15”
04 Mattina: 20’ di corsa e qualche allungo
Pomeriggio: Memorial Nebiolo Torino gara sui 3000 in 7’52”69 PERSONALE
05 Trasferimento in quota-Abetone
Pomeriggio: 1h di corsa rigenerativa
06 Mattina: 1h10’ di corsa estensiva
Pomeriggio: 13 km sui saliscendi con corsa continua intensiva media 3’21”
07 Mattina:P.A. frazionata per 12 km sui saliscendi, intorno alla soglia anaerobica con recuperi attivi. Pomeriggio: ½ ora di corsa continua tranquilla e 2serie di 10x150 in agilità su strada con recupero di 30” e 6’ tra le serie
08 Mattina: Sempre in quota 25 km di FARTLEK con 10 variazioni di 1 km Pomeriggio: 30’ di corsa rigenerativa e 20x100 metri in agilità
09 Mattina: 12 km di corsa intensiva
Pomeriggio: Un po’ stanco ci siamo limitati a un lavoro di agilità e reattività con uso di ostacoli e tanti prati.
10 Mattina: Corsa tranquilla per 50’
Pomeriggio: Al campo buon riscaldamento terminandolo con 10x200 sui 30”. Pausa e R.S. con5x500 media 1’15” con recupero di 2’; pausa 8’ 6x300 sui 44” con recupero 1’.
11 Mattina: ½ ora di corsa + palestra + agilità varia e allunghi sull’erba.
12 RIPOSO
13 Mattina: 30’ di corsa e allunghi vari
Pomeriggio. Gara su strada a Cesena, intesa come medio e progressione finale.Facile vittoria sui 10 km in 30’28”.
14 Mattina: RIPOSO
Pomeriggio: 1h di corsa continua facile.
15 Esame all’università: positivo Stanco per la prova d’esame, dalle 9 alle 17, si è limitato a ½ di corsa streaching e ½ ora di allunghi sull’erba.
16 Mattina: Al campo dopo il riscaldamento ritmato da 10000 con 20x400 media 66” con 100 metri di recupero attivo.Velocità A/L. con 5x60 + 10x80 lanciati.
pomeriggio: 6 km rigenerativi seguiti da 7 km intensivi media 3’10”
17 mattina: Al campo 3x1200 variati 66”/64”/62”recupero 3’+3x500 alla media di 1’15” con 2’ di recupero + 6x150 sui 21” a recupero completo
Pomeriggio: 50’ di corsa rigenerativa
18 mattino: Lavoro di rifinitura a Roma con un bel riscaldamento 3x150 alla ricerca del ritmo e 600/500/400 ritmo gara dei 3000 pomeriggio: PARTENZA PER LEIRA
19 A LEIRA 10 km tranquilli con il km finale forte in ca. 2’45”. Corsetta e allunghi
20 PREGARA con corsetta e allunghi quindi 5x60 al 90%+ 3x150 sui 21”5; pausa e 500 metri in 1’13”.
21 Mattina: 20’ di corsa e qualche allungo
Pomeriggio: COPPA EUROPA METRI 3000 3° classificato in 8’02”22
22 Mattina: 50’ di corsa rigenerativa a LEIRA
23 Pomeriggio: Lavoro di recupero con corsetta, streaching e allunghi sull’erba 4 km tranquilli e 10 km estensivi, media 3’25”+ vari allunghi sui 100/120 metri
24 mattina: Pregara con corsa, agilità 3x150 alla ricerca del ritmo e una frazione di gara sui 1000 metri in 2’40”, defaticamento
25 Mattina: Messa in moto con 30’ di passeggio e corsetta
pomeriggio: NOTTURNA DI MILANO metri 5000 in 13’26”09, miglioramento di 20”ca. e 16^ prestazione italiana
26 pomeriggio: 40’ di corsetta rigenerativa
27 Mattin: Al campo riscaldamento + volume con 10x300 facili in 47”ca.recupero attivo 100 metri+6x150 metri sui 21” a recupero completo
Pomeriggio: 50’ di corsa rigenerativa
28 mattina: Lavoro in pineta con breve riscaldamento e 7 km di medio tranquillo, media 2’55”
pomeriggio: 50’ di corsa tranquilla
29 Mattino: Pregara con corsa e allunghi Arrivo a Lille
Pomeriggio: 30’di corsetta defaticante
30 Mattina: 20’ di corsa con allunghi GARA A LILLE sui 10.000, 28’50”1010° classificato
The current training of Daniele is by far very different from that one. The reported training was part of his preparation during the month of June 2009, when Daniele's coach was still Principato. Only after that period Meucci went under the coaching of Massimo Magnani, looking at longer distances.
Massimo (who was a Marathon runner himself, PB 2:11:05 during the World Cup 1985 in Hiroshima) uses a more traditional approach. The most known Italian Coach (from Luciano Gigliotti to Giampaolo Lenzi, from Giorgio Rondelli to Tommaso Ticali) use a similar approach, based on the QUALITY of long run, often replaced by long and continuous run with variation (for example, 4 x 5 km at MP alternated with 1 km at 90% of MP, or the classic 3 x 7 km of Gelindo Bordin).
The main difference from the activity of Daniele and, for example, Baldini, is in the number of competitions, and the fact Meucci continues to run on track with good results.
Baldini at his best had the possibility to run, probably, under 27'30" in 10000m on track, but, after becoming Marathon runner full time, decided to decline every interest on track, for having more tranquil and focused preparation.
Anyone surprised by a 10000m on Wednesday and a marathon on Sunday !?!?
Everything normal ! kinda a new version of tapering
ioko wrote:
Anyone surprised by a 10000m on Wednesday and a marathon on Sunday !?!?
Everything normal ! kinda a new version of tapering
I don’t see your point. While it’s true that a 10.000 could be physically demanding, that specific race wasn’t extremely fast. Moreover Meucci didn’t push as hard as Farah during the last lap. Some guys like to do 3-5miles at HM during last week. Meucci ran a 28:19 which is a 6Mile @ 97% of his 10k pace. Hard but doable.
That was very hard for him. Often, the fast finishes will take as much out of the body as a fast race.
Please post where the results are available.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5974579A link please wrote:
Please post where the results are available.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYupuoloja0800 Coach wrote:
That was very hard for him. Often, the fast finishes will take as much out of the body as a fast race.
As you can see here, he ran the final lap in about 64’’ which isn’t a very fast finish
Renato Canova wrote:
The current training of Daniele is by far very different from that one. The reported training was part of his preparation during the month of June 2009, when Daniele's coach was still Principato. Only after that period Meucci went under the coaching of Massimo Magnani, looking at longer distances.
Massimo (who was a Marathon runner himself, PB 2:11:05 during the World Cup 1985 in Hiroshima) uses a more traditional approach. The most known Italian Coach (from Luciano Gigliotti to Giampaolo Lenzi, from Giorgio Rondelli to Tommaso Ticali) use a similar approach, based on the QUALITY of long run, often replaced by long and continuous run with variation (for example, 4 x 5 km at MP alternated with 1 km at 90% of MP, or the classic 3 x 7 km of Gelindo Bordin).
The main difference from the activity of Daniele and, for example, Baldini, is in the number of competitions, and the fact Meucci continues to run on track with good results.
Baldini at his best had the possibility to run, probably, under 27'30" in 10000m on track, but, after becoming Marathon runner full time, decided to decline every interest on track, for having more tranquil and focused preparation.
Mr. Canova you said that Baldini could run under 2:04:
"This year, the last test of Stefano, at 5:54 he had 1.8 mmol. We — me and Baldini's coach, Luciano Gigliotti, that was the same coach of Gelindo Bordin winning Olympics in 1988 — were that in condition like Berlin that [Paul] Tergat had, he could run very, very easy one minute faster than Tergat, 2:04."
Do you really think that he would have a hard time running under 27:30? Or maybe the 2:04 was an overestimation?
Hi Renato:
Have you ever done the Gigliotti-Farragiana test with a "new turbo diesel" type runner? If so, what results did you get? If not, how would you expect the results to differ from, say, Baldini's best test results? Thanks.
Baldini was clean, just like Bordin, Mei, Cova, and Antibo.
Hi,
Daniele Meucci talent is huge!!!Just think that he had begun
athletic at 17 years old , while before he was a footballer,
than when he was 17 years and six months old he made 31'00" on 10000 m here in
Italy. If you dont have a great great talent you will never do that
chrono ,no matter how!!!
Go Daniele, great man , great athlet!!!
Please post a link to video of the marathon.
Nevermind, found it here.
If Baldini (in the shape of 2004) wanted to prepare one competition of 10000m at his top level, I think he could be able running between 27'25" and 27'30".
Someody can be surprised when I say he could run in Berlin, with the shape of Olympic Games, under the WR and very close 2:04. But when ye prepare in SPECIFIC way the Marathon, with 27'20" / 27'30" you can run under 2:04:00, if you have that type of talent (which is also mental, not only physical, and under this point of view Baldini was very strong, of course very much more than Tergat, for example).
Some example ? Tsegaye Kebede, he absolutely is not able running 10000m faster than 27'30", and everybody can see his results, his victories and his continuity. Also Patrick Makau and Wilson Kipsang could have a value around 27'15" in a fast 10000m race, absolutely not better, but their preparation is completely looking at Marathon, and th main goal is to raise the coefficient of specific resistance (now under inside 5% of difference in the pace between PB in HM and PB in Marathon).
If we want to see the real value, as speed, of the top marahon runners (not coming from track activity, which is the case of Mosop, Kipchoge, Gebre, Tergat and now Bekele), we need to look at their PB in HM, that is a distance they frequently run, in good conditions of shape.
Comparing the percentage of speed Marathon / HM for the best athletes, we can have the following coefficient of specific Marathon endurance :
1. Vincent Kipruto 60:39 2:05:13 96.87%
2. Emmanuel Mutai 59:52 2:03:52 96.66%
3. Moses Mosop 59:20 2:03:06 96.40%
4. Abel Kirui 60:11 2:05:04 96.24%
5. Geoffrey Mutai 58:58 2:03:02 95.85%
6. Eliud Kipchoge 59:25 2:04:05 95.77%
7. Dennis Kimetto 59:14 2:03:45 95.73%
8. Wilson Kipsang 58:59 2:03:23 95.61%
9. Tsegaye Kebede 59:35 2:04:38 95.61%
10.Ryan Hall 59:43 2:04:58 95.57%
11.Patrick Makau 58:52 2:03:38 95.23%
12.James Kwambai 59:09 2:04:27 95.06%
13.Haile Gebrselassie 58:55 2:03:59 95.04%
14.Martin Lel 59:30 2:05:15 95.01%
15.Meb Keflezighi 61:00 2:08:37 94.85%
16.Paul Tergat 59:06 2:04:55 94.62%
17.Jonathan Maiyo 59:02 2:04:56 94.50%
18.Stanley Biwott 58:56 2:04:55 94.48%
19.Wilson Chebet 59:15 2:05:27 94.46%
20.Sammy Kitwara 58:48 2:05:16 93.88%
21.Sammy Wanjiru 58:33 2:05:10 93.55%
22.Geoffrey Kipsang 58:54 2:06:12 93.34%
Stefano Baldini had a index of specific Marathon endurance
of 95.52%, looking at his official records (60:50 / 2:07:22)
however we know in the period of Athens he could run about 60:20 / 2:05:00 (with an index similar Abel Kirui).
Some curiosity :
look at the ridiculous index of the nest two athletes :
Zersenay Tadese 58:23 2:10:41 89.35%
Mathew Kisorio 58:46 2:10:58 89.74%
In the last case, if he doped for running Marathon, you can see the wonderful effects of doping for Marathon..... but I don't want to go again on this argument, because too much people are not able to understand !
At least, we can say that a NORMAL Marathon runner must be able to run at a speed around 95% of his PB in HM, if his training is correct (and, of course, if he has some specific talent, especially mental, for the distance).
This means this kind of equivalence, with good training (without trying to challenge Ventolin...) :
2:05:00 with 59:20
2:06:00 with 59:50
2:07:00 with 60:20
2:08:00 with 60:50
2:09:00 with 61:18
2:10:00 with 61:45
2:11:00 with 62:13
2:12:00 with 62:42
2:13:00 with 63:10
2:14:00 with 63:40
2:15:00 with 64:08
Who is not able to stay inside these parameters, or follows a wrong system of training, or is not physycally and mentally talented for long distances.
Applying the same index to the women, we can see how the current WR of Florence Kiplagat in HM can produce a time, in marthon, of 2:17:00 with correct and specific training (something which, till now, we still disn't start).
Renato Canova wrote:Someody can be surprised when I say he could run in Berlin, with the shape of Olympic Games, under the WR and very close 2:04. But when ye prepare in SPECIFIC way the Marathon, with 27'20" / 27'30" you can run under 2:04:00, if you have that type of talent (which is also mental, not only physical, and under this point of view Baldini was very strong, of course very much more than Tergat, for example)
ehh ???
tergat was an ole man in '04 & got a side-stitch in athens when picking up wrong drinks bottle
i was watching in city centre when tergat went by & it was little more than walking pace
he was in a bad way & nothing to do with "mental" attitude
This means this kind of equivalence, with good training (without trying to challenge Ventolin...) :
2:05:00 with 59:20
2:06:00 with 59:50
2:07:00 with 60:20
2:08:00 with 60:50
2:09:00 with 61:18
2:10:00 with 61:45
2:11:00 with 62:13
2:12:00 with 62:42
2:13:00 with 63:10
2:14:00 with 63:40
2:15:00 with 64:08
surprisingly good numbers renato !
the theoretical numbers i get are
27'00 = 59'12 = 2"04'57
28'00 = 61'18 = 2"09'10
29'00 = 63'24 = 2"13'23
30'00 = 65'30 = 2"17'36...
paula's 2"15'25 wr is "only" worth a
~ 29'29
for 10k
Applying the same index to the women, we can see how the current WR of Florence Kiplagat in HM can produce a time, in marthon, of 2:17:00 with correct and specific training (something which, till now, we still disn't start).
yes
Ventolin, I explain because, in my opinion, Tergat never had the right mentality for Marathon.
In his several HM, and many times attempting a new WR, he Always was able to run ALONE the last 8-10 km of the race. He ran AGAINST TIME, showing not to fear the distance.
When he bettered the WR of 10000m, he had Paul Koech in front of him till 3 laps to go, but in these 3 laps gave 11 seconds to Paul Koech : so, didn't fear distance and speed of 10000m.
When we speak about Marathon, he ran 13 marathons in his life and, apart the victory in Lake Biwa at the end of his career, NEVER put his nose in front of the race. Also in Berlin, he overtook Sammy Korir (good athlete, but of sure not a big champion) only in the last 50m, NEVER pacing one meter during the competition. When he won NY, he defeated Ramaala in the last 10 meters, but NEVER was in front of the race.
This means one thing only : PAUL FEARED THE DISTANCE, and his only goal was to follow the pace of other runners, if able to do.
This is not the mentality of a top Marathon runner. If you want to be a winner (and a record holder) in Marathon, you need to be able to run ALONE for many km, and to speed up the pace already far from the finish : look at Wilson Kipsang, Geoffrey Mutai, Emmanuel Mutai, Sammy Wanjiru, Tsegaye Kebede, Patrick Makau, and also Haile and Kenenisa.
In Athens, before the Marathon, Baldini told me to fear Tergat, because he was the WR holder. I told him that NEVER Tergat could be a factor in that competition, exactly because of the reasons I wrote above.
In the shape Stefano had, I told him he only had to fear Gharib. But, when I spoke with Gharib and I discovered he in the last 15 days had several injection in one hip because of an injury, knowing the last 10 km of the course were downhill (so Jouad could not run fast), I told Stefano not to worry : nobody had any possibility against him, on that course, with that weather and with his shape.
Renato, would you consider Baldini to be an early "new turbo diesel" type runner? Or would you consider him to be the best of the non-turbo diesel types?