Remind me again why anyone would own any vehicle other than a Toyota or Honda?

Because the 90s was a long time ago. Hyundai has left those two relics in the dust.

Subaru for same reliability and value as T&H when you need best in class all wheel drive for snow, mud, rain, ...

over50 wrote:

Subaru for same reliability and value as T&H when you need best in class all wheel drive for snow, mud, rain, ...

Fuji Heavy Industries, the parent company of Subaru, is currently in a partial partnership with Toyota Motor Corporation, which owns 16.5% of FHI.

Got a Tacoma last year- traded in an 07 dodge 1500- seems to have pretty decent power (not towing anything), smaller wallet hit when filling up the tank- a lot more fun bouncing down dirt roads-- the dodge was scary

Also bought a pontiac Vibe AWD (the unofficial car of northern New England sorry Subaru) very reliable ok on gas, costs nothing to fill- toyota product GM hoped would keep them from going bankrupt and replaced the inovative yet butt ugly aztrek- vibe or matrix highly recommended if you don't care what your car looks like- was a lot of fun w studded tires last winter over mtn passes- much less expensive than a Subaru and less expensive cost of ownership

Toyota stopped building the Matrix, supposed to still be available in Canada?

gdfgdfgdfg wrote:

I've driven a lot of cars, never thought a Mercedes or BMW was better to drive than a Honda or Toyota. My dad had a BMW 5XX, thing was a twin turbo V8.

I took it out one time to see what it could do and that was bring up all these alarms, sputter, and tell me to pull over when I floored it. Never happened in a Toyota or Honda. There were other problems too and the dash layout was sooo bad. It was easier to find the button to disengage the rear diff for towing than the volume control. True H and T are not making sports car now, but still, an NSX, S2000 or Supra can still be found.

I agree with the OP, unless you want diesel, a large truck or a Tesla.

So you drove a new BMW one time and couldn't figure out the controls so that means its best to stick with used Hondas and Toyotas? Overly complicated electronics seem to be an issue with all high end cars now, but just because you couldn't figure it out in one drive doesn't mean you can write off everything but Toyota and Honda.

Your are right Toyota and Honda are essentially out of the sports car game now with the exception of the Scion/Toyota FT86, and Subaru did the engine and chassis for that car.

I agree that if you want a simple, fun, reasonably priced car you should go used. Good luck finding a Supra of any kind, especially one that hasn't been modified to within an inch of its life. S2000 is a fantastic car but still overpriced in the used market. NSX can be had for a fair price but they still aren't cheap.

I'd go with a used M3 over all those cars and I am not a BMW guy. Nissan 300zx is also pretty bulletproof, much easier to find than a supra, and much cheaper than a S2000.

I had no problem figuring out the controls. They sucked, but I could figure them out.

I have driven many BMW's many times. They are nothing exceptional and are inferior to Japanese cars in many ways

(price, mileage, reliability). They don't offer an overall better driving experience.

fgfdggfdg wrote:

I had no problem figuring out the controls. They sucked, but I could figure them out.

I have driven many BMW's many times. They are nothing exceptional and are inferior to Japanese cars in many ways

(price, mileage, reliability). They don't offer an overall better driving experience.

In general I agree. Which is why I drive a Japanese car.

Why would anyone buy anything other than a Prius? Cheapest car per mile when considering gas mileage and longevity.

toyoyo wrote:

Thanks.

I get your point, but there are some others that are worthy of ownership (I won't mention luxury cars). (I own a Honda Accord, Honda CR-V and Scion xA; the Scion is made my Toyota of course).

Some Mazdas are worthy.

Hyundai is a worthy brand.

Due to quality, I would not choose to own - Jeep, VW, Chevrolet.

If I HAD to buy an American car, it would be Ford, but right now today, I would prefer not to buy an American car.

I can easily understand why someone would want to purchase something other than Honda or Toyota.

I can't understand why people think Honda's are so boring to drive. They're sporty in a unique way. Honda started out making motorcycles & still today they're the company with the largest number of motorcycle sales in Japan. They carry over this sportiness to their cars. At the heart of even their most practical cars is a sporty drive feature. The Fit to the S2000 to the Odyssey. Firm suspension, fun to drive.

Why I don't own a Honda or Toyota?

I'm not poor.

#Audi

I drove a Honda for 15 years. Thought I was so smart, saving money and traveling with efficiency.

Then I got a BMW X3 and realized the Honda was a death trap. Slow acceleration, 2wd, poor handling on uneven surfaces. Sure, I got good gas mileage... but safety is more important.

With my BMW, I can easily accelerate to avoid danger. I don't even have to change the oil but once a year. When I take my car in for servicing, BMW gives me a free loaner for the day.

Convenience and safety are more important than saving a few bucks.

Broncos wrote:

Why I don't own a Honda or Toyota?

I'm not poor.

#Audi

It's funny, most wealthy people I know don't drive luxury cars. I am talking about old money wealth. Guys who come out of college and think they're rich drive Audis.

I actually had an Audi a few years ago, so I am not being mean. A great car that I should have kept, to be honest. Maintenance was a bitch, though. I have to admit that it got annoying having to take it to the specialty garage to have them change the oil, etc. They make it impossible to change the oil yourself, which I hate. I drive a Honda Pilot now, which wasn't cheap since I got the Touring edition, but it is a sensible car for kids and travel. I don't spend much time in the car on a day-to-day basis. My wife drives a 1982 Suburban that she bought retro-renovated from a classic cars place in town. Total waste of money but she loves it and it is pretty cool.

The one toy my father-in-law had for a few years was an M5 that was just awesome. I enjoyed driving it but I don't think I'd ever want to own it. He sold it to a young lawyer, which is par for the course.

My dad is a HUGE car guy. He has driven a few badass cars in his day but he has settled down. He drives an Acura SUV day-to-day and owns 2-or-3 british cars at a time that he restores. MGs and Austin Healys, that sort of thing.

i am not saying that Hondas and Toyotas are the only thing you can buy, but as I get older and accumulate more wealth, I will say that cars are pretty poor indicators of wealth/status. It also sucks to take car of a depreciating piece of metal. I'd rather spend the money on travel and other luxuries. YMMV, and if you have a job that requires constant driving, you may want a nicer car (although very few of those jobs pay well enough to warrant it).

what i can't figure out is why someone would by an import truck over a domestic manufacturer.

let's look at the Tundra (5.7L) vs. the Silverado (6.2L).

MPG:

Chevy- 16/23

Toyota- 14/18

Horsepower:

Chevy- 420

Toyota- 381

Torque:

Chevy- 460

Toyota- 401

Towing capacity:

Chevy- 12,000 lbs

Toyota- 10,000 lbs

MSRP:

Chevy- starts at $25k

Toyota- starts at $31k

I work for an automotive marketing agency that represents both brands, and I spend a fair amount of time behind the wheel of the Silverado/ Sierra/ Yukon as well as the Tundra/ Sequoia. Chevy's new generation small block of the ecotec3 is the best small block on the market today. Ford will be coming out with an updated F-150 that is forecasted to do well. The F-150 Atlas is going to shake the truck segment in a large way next spring.

Changing the subject from trucks to sedans, I cannot understand why people are still buying Toyotas, when Tesla (made 100% in Fremont, CA) manufactures the top electric vehicle on the market. That's right, a California company took out the manufacturing plant that was once Toyota. Mercedes and BMW will have their hands full when the third gen Tesla hits the market and takes the C/3 series market share away. Companies like Maseratti will largely lose whatever market share they had to Tesla. Shoot, look at the Tesla Model X--it is much more technologically advanced compared to anything else on the market, have you seen the falcon doors?!

so to the OP, what is being designed overseas cannot begin to compete with what is being designed in the truck market in Detroit, or the sedan and SUV market in California. That is why someone would purchase an American car over an import.

http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/tesla-model-s.pdf

Broncos wrote:

Why I don't own a Honda or Toyota?

I'm not poor.

#Audi

It's not about being rich or poor. Statistically, most people who drive luxury cars either lease them or buy them used. What befuddles me is why someone would choose to pay 30k for a used 3-4 year old BMW (which has mediocre reliability and sub par resale) when they could pay 2-3 thousand more for a loaded, brand spanking new Camry, Accord or Maxima (which has excellent resale and reliability).

This seems to be a younger generation thing, as another poster pointed out. They don't feel 'cool' unless they're driving a cool or luxury car. Older wealthy professionals with old money don't seem to be nearly as self conscious and have no problem driving around a cheap reliable car.

I drive a VW because it's the poor man's Mercedes. I like the "stiffness" (lol) of the steering vs. Japanese and American cars, which seem squirrely and loose.

McG1000 wrote:

Then I got a BMW X3 and realized the Honda was a death trap.

Convenience and safety are more important than saving a few bucks.

So how many close calls did you have in your Honda? Injuries?

Completely lame reasoning.

A car is not a necessity, it is a luxury. A bus or similar public transportation pass, or a bike if you live in a central enough location, covers the "necessity" bit. Your own personal motorized vehicle is a luxury.

Agree to a point. Hyundai and Kia have both come on very strong in recent years, with great styling to boot. Toyota and Honda designs are simply pathetic.For the American companies, Ford is the only one worth buying and it has nothing to do with bailouts. Their new lineup of cars is far more stylish than Toyota and Honda and GM. They've lead the way out of the recession in terms of stylish design (for the mass market companies). The new Mustang and F-150 coming out in the fall are going to be big for Ford too. Also saw the new small Lincoln SUV the other day- pretty solid.

Hoka Hoka One One One wrote:

Because the 90s was a long time ago. Hyundai has left those two relics in the dust.

Not true for many people. Public transport or bikes are not a feasible option for many. They could, of course, move to a place where it is a possibility, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call a car a necessity for many.