Suspect signs of doping

battonwedgie wrote:

LM,

JR routinely posts on here and his "big thing" is that epo doesn't help you run faster. He denies that drugs do anything.

He's a fool

It's easy to estimate performance gain from 1500m - 10,000 based on all the available evidence

And conconi was able to estimate performance gains for blood Doping in the 800 before epo

Google his wiki page and the information is right there

800 not 800

Was Bowerman a big advocate of doping? He was a well known cheater and involved in the evil of nike.

Look at Lance....

It killed Nike to let him go..

THey held onto him for 6 months after the USAda reasoned decision.

. Tells you all you need to know about their stance on Doping

sleeeper wrote:

Thank you for that post, Zat0pek. While the implications of what you write are a little sad, they align perfectly with what I've witnessed as a T&F fan. Thank you for taking the time to write this all out.

He copied and pasted it over from another

forum

He makes a few good points with a dollop of hyperbole thrown in

beantaxi wrote:

C.Kelly wrote:

Zat0pek mentions braces, you can safely ignore him. The braces test is highly specific.

So, because one of his arguments is not to your liking (though you don't do very much to discredit it), you think all of his other points are 'tainted' and should be thrown out?

There aren't any valid arguments or any evidence in the text he has copied and pasted. It's just a collection of suggestive, although fairly well written, anecdotes that play up to the already convinced audience.

Lame copy/paste idiots like zatopek actually undermine the anti-doping struggle.

You have poor reading comprehension skills. I've already said that I was the original author on another board and copied it here because it was relevant to the discussion.

For example, this just came out regarding my Principle #1 (The cheaters are [almost] always ahead of the testers):

I think Zatopek brought out some very incisive points, and I thank him for that. My (unsolicited) opinion is that doping is not a clear-cut, right-or-wrong issue of ethics or morals. There's a spectrum of self-enhancement we all engage in our everyday lives - cosmetic surgery, access to non-banned supplements, non-prescription nootropics, access to a high quality diet conducive to benefiting from mental and physical exertion, and, most of all, the privilege of connections among the rich and powerful.

People will do whatever is in their power to get ahead while patting themselves on their backs and assuring others they succeeded purely due to a system of meritocracy. In my personal example, I witnessed and estimated that approximately 10-15% of my medical school classmates used controlled prescriptions (eg. methylphenidate, Adderall, etc.) to study for steps 1 and 2 CK of the USMLE (national medical licensing exams crucial for successful residency placement). Quite a few of these classmates began taking these substances without any diagnosis of ADHD prior to medical school. Somehow, they 'discovered' their ailments on day 1 of medical school. I personally found it to be morally egregious and even took pride in not needing anything of the sort to perform well, but in retrospect I could never pinpoint a logical reason as to why my position on the matter was the correct one. In the end, my classmates - and pro athletes - did whatever they could in order to obtain their desired results. Other classmates of mine did not engage in such tomfoolery but instead banked on their family wealth and connections to obtain what they wanted. I suppose my point is that there are many non-meritorious methods of succeeding that don't involve doping and aren't strictly illegal. While I think to myself that I took the moral high ground, I cannot help but note that the aforementioned people - medical students under pressure, world-class athletes - acted rationally in doing everything in their power to succeed, for whatever reason.

Nowadays, not much later, I still 'look down' upon those who 'cheat,' such as juiceheads at the gym, elite runners microdosing EPO and other PEDs, or physicians getting their buddies to prescribe adderall for them so they can keep operating, but I cannot say with any confidence that my position is the right one. And so it is that I gladly watched Bolt, Rudisha, and whomever else breaking through impossible athletic barriers, without caring enough to consider what privileges they banked upon in order to achieve what they did. At some point, the self-righteousness serves no end. If we are to get rid of doping, then we will have to get rid of a lot of other privileges that not all athletes possess.