Sub 2:20 Marathon- Can I run it off 90-100 MPW ?

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  • 40th Running
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 8:11am CST
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    Hi,

    Can I run sub 2:20 off of 90-100 MPW average ? I have ran 2:20:56 3 years ago, and have since been stuck into the 2:23-2:25 range,(5-8 marathons a year) compared to just focusing on 1-2. So far in my 3 week build up I have ran 86,94.8 and 81 MPW. How would you structure a 100 Mile week in regards to focusing on breaking 2:20. My goal race is Feb 23rd.

    My Structured Schedule:

    Mon - AM 8 with 8-10 x 200's/PM 7
    Tue - AM 8 / PM 7
    Wed - PM 16 Miles total of Speedwork + Endurance(ex: 6 x 1M+ 8M Easy distance run
    Thu - Am 8 / PM 7
    Fri - AM 8 / PM 7
    Sat - AM 10
    Sun - AM 20 Miles total alternating Farlek with Long Threshold workouts (Ex. 2 x 4M + 10M Easy Distance run)

    Total : 106 Miles

    The reason I cannot go longer mon-fri is because I run the 8 miles on my lunch break and 7 miles on my treadmill at night when my son goes to bed.


    Thanks for any thoughts!
  • Gcol
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 8:16am CST
    re: 40th Running
    Forum Index
    Yes you can, if you are a great talent and you inject as much quality as you can handle. Some British kid just ran 2:16 at CIM off of 70-90 mi/week.
  • Seth hutchinson
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 8:33am CST
    re: 40th Running
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    Good luck!
  • HRE
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 8:45am CST
    re: 40th Running
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    Many guys have gone sub 2:20 on 90-100 a week. Many have done it on less than that. Others haven't come close to sub 2:20 on 120 or more a week. There's only one way to find out.
  • fred
    registered
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 8:56am CST
    re: 40th Running
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    Sunday - building into more quality and no easy distance.

    Wednesday - extended threshold on the treadmill
  • AMB
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 9:04am CST
    re: 40th Running
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    Quit having kids.
  • MPR
    registered
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 9:10am CST
    re: 40th Running
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    Example of a simple sub 2:20 plan

    14 Day Micro-cycle (90-110 miles per week)
    5 Stress Workouts per Micro-Cycle

    Day 1: AM 16 x 400m Hill PM 30 min jog
    Day 2: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 3: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 4: AM Either 30 min or 60 min Tempo PM 30 min easy
    Day 5: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 6: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 7: AM 120 mins fast finish (90/30) or steady state
    Day 8: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 9: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 10: AM 6 x mile PM 30 mins easy
    Day 11: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 12: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 13: AM 140-150 mins easy pace long run
    Day 14: AM 30 mins easy PM 30 mins easy

    On days 2, 5, 8, and 11 add in 8 x :20 strides in one run

    Repeat micro-cycle 4-6 times (8-12 weeks) leading up to your marathon + 7-10 day taper.

    Notes:

    Day 1: 16 x 400 up a moderate hill (3-5% grade) at roughly 5-10k pace with jog down recovery

    Day 4: Alternate micro-cycle between 30 min Tempo at 4-5% faster than MP (marathon pace) and 60 mins Tempo at 0-1% faster than MP

    Day 7: Alternate micro-cycles between 120 mins with the first 90 mins easy and the last 30 mins at MP, and 120 minutes steady state of 5-7% slower than MP.

    Day 10: 6 x 1 mile repeats with quarter mile jog recovery - repeats done at 8-10% faster than MP.

    Day 13: 150 minutes at 15-20% slower than MP

    Easy pace is usually 15-20% slower than MP, occasionally up to 25% slower if needed after a particularly tough workout.

    There are plenty of variations to this and ways to enhance some of these workout depending on many variable, but this gives you all the basic building blocks needed to run a marathon very well in your situation (as described) if you are looking for a set repeatable schedule.
  • 40th Running
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 10:18am CST
    re: MPR
    Forum Index
    Thanks for the advice, and information.

    Just trying to figure out whats easier for me during the week, and still managing to hit 90-100 mpw.

    Thanks,
  • how they train
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 8:17pm CST
    re: 40th Running
    Forum Index
    Read this.

    http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=535788

    Benji Durden broke 2:10 running 80=90 miles/week; he felt that more mileage was counterproductive for him.
  • Formula 1 fan
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 10:03pm CST
    re: 40th Running
    Forum Index
    maybe instead of 5-8 marathons a year you should focus on 2-3 and get a longer buildup and do some shorter races
  • ummm.
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 10:25pm CST
    re: 40th Running
    Forum Index
    40th Running wrote:

    Hi,

    Can I run sub 2:20 off of 90-100 MPW average ? I have ran 2:20:56 3 years ago, and have since been stuck into the 2:23-2:25 range,(5-8 marathons a year) compared to just focusing on 1-2. So far in my 3 week build up I have ran 86,94.8 and 81 MPW. How would you structure a 100 Mile week in regards to focusing on breaking 2:20. My goal race is Feb 23rd.

    One key question in my mind is: what kind of mileage did you run to get the 2:20:56, and what kind of mileage did you run the last 3 years to get 2:23-2:25?
  • The Animal Within
    6 years ago 12/30/2013 11:50pm CST
    re: MPR
    Forum Index
    400s , 6xmile... He's not training for high school track.

    The key is to lengthen your workouts, reduce rest, increase length of marathon paced tempos, add strides, ancillerary work (not in place of miles though).

    Need some marathon workout deas let me know.
  • S. Canaday
    registered
    6 years ago 12/31/2013 12:49am CST
    re: The Animal Within
    Forum Index
    Depends on talent (so your shorter distance PRs).

    I'd scrape the 200s. Most runners just need more strength/stamina to put together a good marathon. For a lot of guys that means a lot of miles and a lot of threshold/tempo work.

    Get good bang for your buck in your long runs: crank out 20-22 milers and hit marathon goal pace (or at least sub 5:30 splits) for several miles near the end...you should be doing these things in around 2 hrs flat or faster so average around 6:00 pace.

    Do long tempo runs/threshold work like 2 mile repeats at half marathon pace with a short rest.

    Mix in a couple mile repeat/track workouts and maybe some 1000s and you'll have more than enough "speed."

    Again though, I never cracked 2:20 on less than 100mpw. 120 was my sweet spot.
  • reed
    registered
    6 years ago 12/31/2013 1:01am CST
    re: S. Canaday
    Forum Index
    S. Canaday wrote:

    Depends on talent (so your shorter distance PRs).

    I'd scrape the 200s. Most runners just need more strength/stamina to put together a good marathon. For a lot of guys that means a lot of miles and a lot of threshold/tempo work.
    ...

    Mix in a couple mile repeat/track workouts and maybe some 1000s and you'll have more than enough "speed."
    .

    i agree, scrap the 200s.

    would be nice to know what you did in the year prior to the 2:20:xx and some other PRs
  • 40th Running
    6 years ago 12/31/2013 6:01am CST
    re: reed
    Forum Index
    Thanks all,

    My Pr's are 14:57 5k, 30:59 10k, 1:07:18 half. I was up to mid 90 but it was up and down when I ran 2:20:56, with one week 96,94,85,83 etc.. Did not do much long threshold work either mainly miles, and then thru in some MP work miles during long runs.

    The reason I have been running 2:23-2:25 is because with all the marathons I have not had time to put in the mega miles like I should be, and instead probably only averaged 65-75 during those weeks between.
  • Miles don't make the man
    6 years ago 12/31/2013 7:07am CST
    re: 40th Running
    Forum Index
    Once you realize higher mileage isn't the ONLY answer, then breaking 2:20 will be possible.

    Sub 2:20 requires about 5:20/mi for 26.2mi, train SPECIFICALLY to do that (especially 8-10 weeks leading up to race)!
  • RGrun
    6 years ago 12/31/2013 8:01am CST
    re: 40th Running
    Forum Index
    Yes you can. I suggest incorporating marathon pace long runs (Canova style), with special attention to recovery (ice baths, sleep, easy running on recovery days). I'm a running dad myself. It's a challenge but all the more sweeter sharing your journey and goal with a family.
    Good luck!
  • heyyo
    registered
    6 years ago 12/31/2013 8:20am CST
    re: 40th Running
    Forum Index
    Isn't part of the question, how many weeks? Running is all about consistency. Have you been averaging 90MPW for 3 years?
  • qrkid
    registered
    6 years ago 12/31/2013 9:23am CST
    re: MPR
    Forum Index
    MPR wrote:

    Example of a simple sub 2:20 plan

    14 Day Micro-cycle (90-110 miles per week)
    5 Stress Workouts per Micro-Cycle

    Day 1: AM 16 x 400m Hill PM 30 min jog
    Day 2: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 3: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 4: AM Either 30 min or 60 min Tempo PM 30 min easy
    Day 5: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 6: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 7: AM 120 mins fast finish (90/30) or steady state
    Day 8: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 9: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 10: AM 6 x mile PM 30 mins easy
    Day 11: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 12: AM 60 mins easy PM 30 mins easy
    Day 13: AM 140-150 mins easy pace long run
    Day 14: AM 30 mins easy PM 30 mins easy

    On days 2, 5, 8, and 11 add in 8 x :20 strides in one run

    Repeat micro-cycle 4-6 times (8-12 weeks) leading up to your marathon + 7-10 day taper.

    Notes:

    Day 10: 6 x 1 mile repeats with quarter mile jog recovery - repeats done at 8-10% faster than MP.


    1st off. MPR (I am assuming it is you Mark)awesome to see you posting. I value your input and hope you continue to offer your thoughts and idea's, even if it means being super selective in what threads you post.

    A thought on the mile repeats above. 8-10% faster than RP would put the OP at ~4:55/mi pace, which sounds great for the session as you have written it.
    What do you think about the idea of extending it out longer. Maybe do the miles in 5:02-4 with 60sec jog recovery, but throughout the buildup extending longer and longer. So starting at 8 x 1mi and adding 1mi each week so get to a point of doing 14 x 1mi around 5:02 with 60sec recovery?
  • 40th Running
    6 years ago 12/31/2013 9:23am CST
    re: Heyyo
    Forum Index
    I've been running 80 - 90's MPW since I was 17, now 28 so I think thats not a problem with being consistant. But I have yet to run a steady 8-10 week marathon cycle with consistant steady 90+ mile weeks (usually up and down) which I feel is all I need and any longer then that just feel flat.